• Yo! Last thread limit was reached.

    It was more like Davina had a split personality when it came to those things. Like one minute she is fighting and has the mentality to back it up then other times, it's completely different and she's scared. I like offensive magic like that. I wish more witches would employ this type of magic. They always go for the pain infliction on vampires versus just breaking their necks, or you know setting them on fire. Bonnie, a relatively untrained witch believe she could resurrect her Grams back when she died, yet Davina, growing up with magic and knowledge of the AP didnt believe that... hm, something seems a bit off. S1 really just erked my nerves. Lol who cared if Marcel had Davina, the witches could have still fought back. Yeah. I didn't think they would actually resurrect her, so a little surprised. Though since they are linked, I bet she's not around long. (Got to give Kol a reason to leave again. --or Davina and him sets off in the sunset. lol)

    I could get behind that. I mean, tv shows don't, usually, have a mass or werewolves anyways all changing at once, seems like one or two suits would be fine, production wise. Lol real wolves, you have to pay for time, handling, transport.. seems costly and I'm sure the actors request additional pay for working with live animals.

    I just like the thought of unique effects to differentiate things and the incantations to have been more accurate. Stick with Latin, etc. for TVD and French for TO ancestral witches. I think I would have like to seen Freya's to be in Norwegian or something related to her and her mother/aunt's native tongue.

    The Daycare Diaries. That's exactly what people want to see for a supernatural show. Perfect thing to save it. Klaroline should have been done when Klaus left MF that last time. Cut the rope and let it end right then. Lol mood killers, scene killers, killers in general... we can do without them, separately, much less than having them together.

    I would have like for the Heretics to come in, guns a blazin and destroy MF, then again they can't expose the superntural community. They never really discussed that (like other shows and movies do), but it was very misleading. Yeah it was Damon and it really did look apocalyptic. Since they did retcon and have the Heretics they should have been a legit threat, but they killed two through Heart Extraction, two just wanted love and blew themselves up and the other one was taken down by Rayna. Smh. Should have been better.

    Oh I like that idea. I can see it going one of two ways. Either Archie, through Jughead, joins the serpents to figure out who killed his father (if he died) or.... he finds out it was a serpent and that completely strains or breaks friendship with Jughead, because he's a serpent now. I think either would be a great version to tell, though the latter seems a little more challenging to come back from, fractured friendship and all. I do like their dynamic though. Chicago, my bad, at least it was a major city :P. the finer details that elude me. Yeah I can see Mary coming back for a bit, probably nothing permanent if Fred lives. I need to catch up on crazy polly then.

    Yeah. I really hate filler episodes, especially when they are completely random and stupid. Musicals are pretty lame. I just can't (usually) get behind them, though there were a couple funny songs from the Buffy episode. XD. I wonder if they are going to explore the drug angle throughout s2 or if they are going to wrap that up by midseason. I mean seems like with Hiram coming in, if he has something to do with it, they will keep that going. They nipped that in the bud really quick. Wished other shows would have done that... because you know Love Triangles are a natural part of relationships nowadays.

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    • The writing was very inconsistent in that manner with her. How do you go from killing several witches at the same time to whimpering the moment a vampire (Finn) has you by the neck? I think that has to be one of the things that annoys me the most about the witches. Why don't they snap the vampires' neck more often? Or like you said, set them on fire. Either would work and they could be kicking a lot more vamp ass. It was strange that she was hesitant to believe them, but I never put much thought into it. That's what I'm saying. The Witches could have went to war with the vamps, so it really wouldn't have mattered if Davina knew they were practicing Magic. That's what I think will happen to. Davina and kol will probably leave town together I hate it, but it's the easiest solution since they don't know how to write for an Original. Better than killing him I guess.

      I have no idea how much those type of suits would cost, but logically speaking, it would have to cost less than CGI or real dangerous animals. Never understood why a show would even risk putting it's actors alongside real animals.

      I'm not a witch guy, so I've actually never even paid attention to the languages used by the witches. I knew it was Latin but I never thought about it past that.

      LOL The Daycare Diaries. I hate and love the sound of that. Klaroline never should have existed. But yeah, ending it with Klaus leaving would have been fine too. But I guess it's just a lot more fun to bait the shippers than to cut them off completely. I'm praying she doesn't become a series regular for S5. I can't do it

      I would have like that for the Heretics as well. Too bad that would have required competent writing. Maybe the Heretics being retcons wouldn't bother me as much if they were as badass as they were hyped to be. The Heretics were as much of a failure as the hybrids. I liked Rayna tho, at least until she started talking so much and caring about Stefan. Before all that, she was cool.

      I hadn't even considered that second scenario where their relationship becomes strained. That would be cool too. Either one works. Lol close enough. Where ever Mary is, I won't be surprised if she returns. It was brief, and just for one episode, but she legit seemed crazy.

      That's precisely my problem with them. Musical episodes are completely unnecessary. They don't serve a true purpose. In no way do they further the story, and the singing in general is just annoying. Well, they said there would be a new mystery for S2, so I assume that involves the drugs. TVD writers really could have taken a note or two from Riverdale. We didn't need Elena, Damon and Stefan or Klaus Caroline and Tyler or Bonnie, Jeremy and Anna triangles. They dragged out much longer than they should've.

      Edit: Thoughts on the new external links?

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    • Comparatively, yea. I can think of a few instances where Bonnie's been in similar situations (even against Katherine in S2) and they are relatively all the same. With Davina, if it wasn't for Kol (against Finn), she would have been dead. Since I've been working the power pages, pyrokinesis is the most under used, when its come to offensive magic. I guess pyrotechnics is costly because they only use fire for the big spells it seems. It was strange that she was hesitant to believe them, but I never put much thought into it. That's what I'm saying. The Witches could have went to war with the vamps, so it really wouldn't have mattered if Davina knew they were practicing Magic. That's what I think will happen to. Davina and kol will probably leave town together I hate it, but it's the easiest solution since they don't know how to write for an Original. Better than killing him I guess. Neck snapping would be the best, albeit temporary option. Pain infliction leaves them open especially if the vampire can fight through it, though nowadays any witch can take down an Original or the Beast with it. smh.

      I agree. Logically, seems less expensive in the long run and you can use it as much as you want, given no extensive damage (that is beyond repair). Real animals just seem too costly. The only shows that come to mind though is Teen Wolf, TVD and TO, which has used both wolf and coyote.

      Lol I've completely worked the Spells And Rituals page for months, actively cataloging the occurrence, the incantations, summaries/descriptions. I'm practically the TVD/TO's Grimoire lol. Nah, I'm not a werewolf guy so it's cool. Speaking of I've referred a user to you about a werewolf question here (Edit: Commented about, here). Not sure if he'll ask you directly or on the page I mentioned.

      Yup that is the spinoff the shippers want. You know what turn it into a daytime (get it --vampries/daytime :) lol) soap opera. New episodes daily of all the family drama that comes from raising supernatural children in the mits of killing your enemies. Gah I hope not. I don't think I could stand it with her and Hayley.

      If they would have been posed as a threat from the get go... idk, kill off a main character first off, like Matt or something (may be to bring him back as a vampire or something) or a prominent character, then maybe it would have been better. Stefan saying they are powerful and ruthless and protected by their magic and then to go off killing Malcolm all in the first episode was like a big REALLY? smack in the face. Then they started to whine and fit in and get social media... like what happened to the killer Heretics? Like you said "would have required competent writing" which we didn't get. Rayna was good. But yeah the caring and Stefan part was kinda irritating., though I guess locked up unable to do what she was created to do left her to her (and Stefan's) own thoughts. Still. I guess 6 generations of killing took a toll on her. Shamans and their blood lust to kill lol.

      Life long friendships that become strained seems to come up eventually. I know TW did it. TVD did it. I'd say it's a matter of time for RD to do it, though they can be tricky and (from a viewer standpoint) can be stupid if not handled right. Scott and Stiles was badly handled imo and was trash for me.I'm not sure which one I'd like to see. I rather like the first, seems like they are more of that direction, though either way being a serpent (if it's for real and not just to get dirt to free FP) will strain all their relationships. I'm not sure how I feel about Mary. I've still not seen crazy Polly yet. I'll have to invest some time to do so.

      Did they say what the "drug" was? Or was that intentionally left out so they could work on it for S2. I guess the drugs and the mugging (possible homicide) will all be connected. I'm sure Hiram will be too. Yeah they wont. They, well at least TO, visits wiki, and if they span the comments, they should know. lol but again they lack competent writers to understand that. You got to admit, though out of the ones mentioned, Bonnie, Jeremy and Anna was the "most normal" lol and Anna was a Ghost. Though she was dragged on for the first half of S2. In retrospect, if Jeremy hadn't kept it a secret and tried to go further... he did need closure. Losing Vicki and Anna and suddenly being able to see them again, it should have been a closure moment(s) not to further it. Then again, this is the same writing crew that gave us Ghost Bonnie and Jeremy later... so that can't be helped since they repeated their issues.

      Thoughts on the new external links? It looks great! :) I didn't think of having them.

      I do have a question. Not an issue or anything just a formatting question. Is there a way to incorporate the image, within the template, also with the link. Like, if you click the twitter bird pic, it takes you to the link as well versus opening the photo? I wasn't sure if that can be done or not since it's an outside link of MTX... I don't guess it's important, but I thought I'd ask.

      BTW. I've Added/updated the

      licensing template for image uploads. The "promotional" images I screencapped from the trailers, can stay as screenshot, because of how they were acquired. (unless you think otherwise, then let me know and I'll update them as well.)
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    • I liked that scene between Bonnie and Katherine in S2 at the Lockwood mansion where Bonnie knocked the doors open after failing to inflict pain on Katherine. Quick thinking. The only scene I can recall where a witch uses pyrokinesis to take down a vampire was when Bonnie set Damon on fire at the carnival in S2. They really should use these obvious abilities more often. The decrease in power level of the Originals is just sad now. It used to be a major feat to take down an Original, it took Bonnie having to channel the power of 100 witches, but now it seems like most witches can do this.

      I'm pretty sure True Blood used real wolves too, but they're on HBO, so they could probably afford it. Lol. Now I'm thinking about how trash the True Blood werewolves were. They were truly pathetic.

      I saw someone comment about how well you had expanded the page. Good on you. Thanks for telling me. I'll look in on that Alpha situation.

      I saw some Klaroliner make a comment about JP knowing what's good for TO by bringing over Caroline as a series regular. I didnt say anything. but I couldn't help but laugh. That was ridiculous. We don't need Caroline, and we don't need to turn this into a day time soap opera, lol.

      That could have worked. The Heretics flopped because they didn't have much of an impact, so killing off an important character could have done that. It could have proven their role as genuine threats. That was just embarrassing. I never really felt like any of them were actually monsters, even though they were supposed to be sociopathic killers like Kai, or at least Jo claimed they were. Rayna did seem like she was going a little nuts in the end. I get wanting it all to end, she had done nothing but hunt all those years, but caring about Stefan never should've been a thing.

      Yeah, it's cliche, but I like it . Scott and Stiles' break up was so forced. It made no sense for Scott to not only just believe everything Theo was telling him but to turn on Stiles that easy as well. TVD did it a lot with Matt and Tyler. So I agree, if done correctly it can turn out really good. I have no feelings towards Mary. I don't like her. I don't hate her.

      According to jughead in the opening narration, Cliff was transporting heroin. I seriously can't wait to see what Hiram brings into all of this. I'll admit, the love triangle between Bonnie, Jeremy, and Anna was the least annoying. The main Trio triangle took over the show, which was just terrible and the hybrids/vampire triangle was just totally unnecessary. It served no purpose other than neutering Klaus, and making him Caroline's bitch. Jeremy was just a messed-up kid, that's the best way to put it. That kid was screwed up. I'm surprised he made it out the show alive, not that he didn't die a few times in between tho. Clearly, the writers have a fetish for after life relationships.

      Thanks! I'm sure it's possible, I just have to get the coding right. I'll look into getting the Twitter bird pic to work as a link. EDIT: I've returned victorious. All the pics on the external links work as links now

      Well done. Looks good. Nah. The screencaps from the trailer can stay as screencaps.

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    • I rather like the scene as well, Bonnie's quick wit in the, literal face of danger. I don't like how it was later proved, what Katherine said about being older and pain infliction not working on her, wrong. Basically, any witch now can take down an original with pain infliction. Harvest Girl Jessica most recently and the Zealot on Marcel. Smh the power standards have greatly changed since then. Yeah that is the only instance that comes to mind that was directly used on a vampire. Hayley (and Jackson) were almost burned alive though. Other uses have been to destroy objects and used to prevent entry/leaving something. Finnent used a fiery explosion type of pyrokinesis on Klaus, though his speed trumped his magic.

      I didn't keep up with TB. Just s4 for the witches then they disappeared or were killed off or not used. I remember a few werewolves but they also had a shifter and a few other creatures. That and not really having HBO, never really got into it much. Hemlock grove used real wolves I believe. Have you seen that show? Probably the most unique twist on the transformation.

      Yeah I saw they removed former from their pages, I guess Lana's is accurate now, though since Ansel was resurrected, he wouldn't have been an Alpha any longer since I'm sure someone else was of the NEAP or Crescents.

      I've noticed the Klaroliner hate and comment about Caroline coming over. It's ridiculous and JP would just fuel the nonsense or cater to the ships. Like sure I'd love for Bonnie to come to NO... would it make sense. No. Does KG want to continue with Bonnie, No. There's no place for her, let alone bringing the girls or (better yet), having custody over them to NO. True, but that is what it will become if Caroline is brought over. Just trash and a shipfest.

      The Heretics would have been better if they had actually caused an explosion and killed half of mystic falls, then the gang blames it on a gas leak... that would have been a great start to it. Really would have had the threat level high from the start, though with Malcolm's death, it was the opposite. Valerie was good, killed someone because they ran her over lol, but then that fizzled out with the romantic stuff with Stefan. Everyone, everywhere has to be romantically involved at one point in time with either Stefan or Damon and then said individual has to be redeemed. Couldn't agree more. Rayna never should have "cared" for Stefan, that was just unnecessary and could have still achieved the end sacrifice with the same reason, 7 lives of hunting down vampires and she was tired of it. That is reasonable.

      I'm good with cliche if it's done right. Scott and Stiles' was forced and didn't make sense, just to further the Theo plot. Matt and Tyler seemed more like a brother fight type of "break-up", once they got over themselves then it was fine. Eh, Mary, probably not enough info to go on about her. I guess I don't really have an opinion of her either. Any perception on her from others? I don't necessarily think she's a bad mom, but seems like they would have mentioned her more if she left on good/neutral terms. Fred and Mary are divorced right? or Separated?

      Ah okay. Seems pretty serious then. I think it will introduce an interesting dynamic, especially in the family drama. Seems like he was willing to do whatever he needed to do to get out of jail, including threatening Veronica's Mother. Yeah they put way too much focus on it and it had a lasting, unnecessary effect. I mean shippers are still fighting over DE/SE and Cami/Caroline/Klaus. Lol after life relationships. That is a good way to put it. Bonnie, ironically was the best thing for Jeremy. Still wished they ended the show with them reuniting. Smh oh well.

      Sweet! That's amazing!. It wasn't a rush, but glad it could be done. I thought so too. Hopefully we will get that first synopsis soon. I feel like maybe within the next two weeks since there are only like 45 days left. Exciting.

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    • No surprise that pain infliction on older vampires was later retconned. It's what they do nowadays. Still kinda pissed that Kol was put down by a couple teenage girls. The power standards have changed immensely with the vampires and the witches. I think the werewolves are the only ones that haven't been changed too drastically. With the vampires, they're powers have been retconned since S1, they aren't even as durable. Stefan threw a knife into Damon's chest in S1, and he didn't even flinch but if something like that was to happen now, he'd probably drop to his knees. I remember all those instances, so one would think that witches would use such a basic ability more often to take out their enemies.

      I didn't keep up with True Blood either. I saw a few episodes here and there, but I never watched regularly. I've only seen a handful of episodes. Just wasn't much substance to that show Imo. It was really just a supernatural porn series if you ask me. I got about halfway through S1 of Hemlock Grove. It was decent. I have no idea why I stopped watching. I remember how unique and badass the transformation was. I dont think I've ever seen anything like it.

      Yeah. Seems like we're in agreement on Ansel and Lana's statues.

      I think JP will add fuel to the fire and bait the ship. She's gonna do as much as she can to get all the Klaroliners to watch TO. Nothings gonna change tho. She's gonna bait them, and they will fall for it. Then there will be outrage from them, and it will happen again. It's the circle of life.

      Seeing Mystic Falls wrecked like that, and knowing that the Heretics could have been the reason for it, that actually had me a little excited to see what would follow with them. But JP being JP screwed that up. That was a great opportunity to make the Heretics seem like badasses. In the end, I still liked Valerie, but the relationship with Stefan was entirely unnecessary. She was definitely off to good start when they killed those hit and runners, but from there it was down hill. It's amazing how they always feel the need to redeem or humanize their Villains, it's almost like they don't understand the meaning of the word. I did like how Rayna screwed them over in the end tho, with Bonnie having the urge to hunt vampires.

      That's exactly what Matt and Tyler's fights were like. They never lasted long, and they always made up. Mary just didn't have much of an impact. Yeah, she isn't a bad mother, but she just didn't want to live in Riverdale anymore. She wanted a change of scenery, but Fred didn't want to move, so that's what led to the separation. It seemed like everything was on good terms. That's what Fred told Hermione at the beginning of the season

      With Veronica realizing that her father isn't the person she thought he was, it'll be interesting to see how they interact, nd how Archie will probably be thrown into it all. The factions war between Cami/Caroline/Klaus was especially dumb to me bc I never understood what the fight was about. Cami was on TO. Caroline wasn't. Accept defeat Klaroliner shippers and shut the hell up. Crying about how terrible Klamille is won't make your ship suddenly happen.

      It was actually a lot simpler than I thought to fix that. So not a problem. Hopefully your right about that Synopsis. Have you seen any tv promotion lately? I don't watch enough tv to knwo

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    • Power levels change base on plot and who needs what to happen. Like why would a witch use pain infliction versus a telekinetic neck snap... seems like they would the latter in a combat situation because a few witches have died that way. I would have liked to see one instance of where a witch killed a vampire like Bonnie attempted with Damon. (Brings me back to Qetsiyah wanting to "throw fireballs" at Silas-- after all the hype, why couldn't this happen). Not surprised. The werewolves are shoved in the background and they don't care about them. I mean we got the enhanced rings and the evolved wolves, yet they're backwater inbreds (well for TO)... TVD stopped the werewolves after what Jules... (discounting the hybrids.) A lot of things have changed since S1. Vampires should be really durable (I keep thinking immortal Silas), but now a stake or knife or whatever seems to slow them down.

      I've not really been a fan of True Blood until the witches. (Supernatural porn lol... yeah it was overkill, and seems like they did it just because they could and on HBO.) Even with S4, I skipped a lot of the unnecessary plot with the vampires. I also thought what Sookie turned out to be was a but ridiculous. Hemlock Grove was a unique spin on both vampire and werewolves, plus it had Famke Janssen (love the actress!). It's been ages since I've seen it but I'd say s1 was probably the best. The last season was a bit eh... I guess the mythology just seemed a bit far-fetched imo. If you ever have the time, I'd recommend finishing it.

      Okay cool. I don't keep up with much of the werewolf politics and pack stuff, but I've corrected the edit for Ansel.

      All the baiting, imo, does more harm than good, especially if it never happens and/or they use it to trick the viewers into watching. If it's a good show, you shouldn't have to trick me into watching it. Just come out and say it. I know, like with Nina's return as Elena, they were pushed to get her back and somethings that's what happens but didn't mean they had to shove all the Elena crap down our throats throughout s8. Tell us now if Candice is coming to TO and should we expect Klaroline... I need about that long to prepare for the crap we would have to expect to come. All the outrage from the stupid shippers because they do fall for it, yet nothing changes.. it's just beyond annoying.

      It would have been an interesting start. Like how Dahlia killed an entire village with a wave of her hand. Why couldn't we see the coven of Heretics do that to a portion of Mystic Falls... wasted opportunity. Rayna, Valerie... they all have to have feelings for Stefan. Yeah that is annoying too, TO has been that way since the conception of Hope-- oh wait that's 4, going on 5 seasons. A show about monsters that they want to play nice with Humans.. eh I have different feelings about that but that is partly because of JP using that excuse for Bonnie to "lose" her magic again. It wasn't like she was immortal or anything, Bonnie would have been the ultimately hunter with her magic. All the possibilities she could have done with Telekinesis or pyrokinesis against vampires... wow it could have been amazing but no, they didn't want to make her OP.

      If it wasn't for mary being Archie's mother, I probably wouldn't remember her. Other then the lawyer bit with FP, she didn't really stick out to me. Yeah I guess with the separation, they could always bring her back later for more relationship/family drama if the plot gets stale.

      Between Archie dating Veronica and maybe Fred being Archie's dad, I bet the dynamic will be interesting with Hiram (please don't let them go down the forbidden love drama crap... that will be obnoxious to sit through). Lol right it was not a possibility unless Candice were to jumps shows and that wasn't happening. Some people are just salty over their ships. Just sit back and by happy that Klaus is still alive (and single and unfortunately playing the "good" father role.). Like come on and get over it because basically no one got what they wanted because JP and/or MN is writing it.

      Well that's good. I've not seen any, then again I only watch basic cable, CW, Fox, NBC, etc... I mostly stick to the CW though what little I've been on NBC, not much since the Grimm finale.

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    • I'll never understand why the writers make pain infliction the witches go-to move when there are so many better ones. I think my favorite kill performed by a witch has to be when Dahlia killed Aiden (RIP). That was so badass. I would have loved to see a combat between Silas and Qetsiyah, where they threw fireballs at each other. I'm sure they were both capable of it since we've seen both of them play with fire at least once throughout S5. It still amazes me how they managed to make the werewolves as useless as they are, even after giving them fancy rings and uncursing them through a ritual. It's like what's the point if that's just going to be the outcome. Werewolves stop being badass with Jules (RIP) because that's when the writing stop being badass. KW was a werewolf fan. I've always believed he heavily influenced that awesomeness of the wolves during the early days of TVD. So when he left, so did all werewolves, except Tyler, who JP didn't know howe to write for. It's sad how depowered the vamps have become. Consequences of poor writing.

      I didn't watch until I started hearing about werewolves and werepanthers, but even then, that wasn't enough. They were pathetic, so I gave up on the show. I just didn't do much for me. That's always been my problem with those premium cable channels, they feel like because they can show whatever they want, they have to. Excessive nudity is not a good replacement for plot and dialogue. I'll be sure to add Hemlock Grove to the already long list of shows that I either need to catch up on or start watching. I liked what little of it I saw.

      Looks good. Still pissed Ansel was killed (RIP, again, for the 3rd time on the post. Each RIP directed at a werewolf. smh)

      It depends on how dumb and naive the shippers are, which in this case is very dumb and naive. JP has been bathing them for years. Each time they fall for it. You can only blame her for so long. Eventually they're going to have to share the blame. How long are they going to fall for it before they realize they're being baited? Agreed. I see no need in keeping it a secret. I'm pretty sure they're probably already talking about how they're going to incorporate Caroline into S5. They should just go ahead and tell us. I'd rather be prepared for it.

      That was legit af. Dahlia had crazy power. It wasn't just one or two Heretics, there was an entire group of them, they should have done a lot more damage than just killing a few trespassers and hit & runners. I guess the ladies just find the hero hair to be irresistible on Stefan. I like how even some of the cast members realize the terrible turn the show and characters have taken. This means that the writers must know as well yet they don't change anything. There's nothing sensible about a humanized monster, and these redemption arcs make no sense. Its almost always fixing a once vicious and badass vamp, and turning them into a neutered lap dog. I hate that they took away Bonnie's magic in the process of doing that, but she was really badass as a hunter, she probably would have been nearly unstoppable with magic, but I guess that's exactly why they took it from her, MFG wouldn't be able to stop her.

      I'm counting on Mary's return, but it's nothing that I really care much about. The character returns I want to hear about are Joaquin and Chuck Clayton. Neither of them are confirmed for S2 yet. Speaking of which, 2x02 is titled chapter 15: Nighthawk. Pop's referred to Jughead as Nighthawk in the pilot, so this is probably going to be an episode centered around Jug. Serpent action, hopefully.

      I honestly don't think Hiram will care. If anything I think he might try to get Archie to like him. He seems like the type to try to come off as a good guy to certain people when it benefits him the most. He might even try to manipulate Archie to get Veronica back on his side. Smh. I hate that they've turned Klaus into a daddy. Another one of TVD/TO's watered down vampires. You only get what you want from these shows if it so happens to be what the writer want too, like DE. Always knew DE shippers would win bc JP is one.

      Well, hopefully they start promotion soon

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    • They use that because it's not lethal (well other than Freya's once). They just can't have Bonnie snap every other vampire's neck. Stefan even seemed surprised when Freya did it to Lucien. Hmm. Favorite kill via magic... Dahlia's was good. Qetsiyah's desiccation spell was pretty awesome (not a kill, but effective). Lol fireballs would have been so much better then glassware. -.- Right. They both manipulated fire, Silas even held it in his fingers, can't imagine it wouldn't be hard to use telekinesis to throw it. lol. It's been a long time since Jules, but yeah they've neutered the wolves, even with their "empowerment". It really seems to fluctuate for plot. One minute it's the vampires, next it's the witches, while the werewolves just get through in the background unless your Keelin and take out a dozen Hollow followers.

      A good plot and cast can make or break a show. Excessive nudity and sex, a plot does not make. While it gives certain elements to a show, if that is what it's revolving around then seems like they are in the wrong industry. TB had werepanthers? I may vaguely remember that, I remember shifters and werewolves. Seems like all the "were"-species are feline and canine origins given all the variations from different shows :P I'm not sure if I get all the different variations though. Werewolf is common and a widely known mythology. As for the others I guess they are from different locations take on the myth? At least that is what I got from TW with the werejaguar. I don't recalled the werepanthers's origin. It's been ages since I've seen it, if I get get some time off when I'm not really busy I may rewatch it. (or I might do it over the summer when there are loads of new shows.

      Lol I've noticed the recurring theme. Lol the same can be said about witches and at this rate, the originals themselves.

      What do you expect... lol they're 13 year old fan girls. Blame Jp and the shippers. Nothing else you can really do about it. JP just condones it. Yeah I'd rather be prepared for it too. Not sure if it would make things better or not but at least we'd know what crapfest we'd be getting into.

      We should have had legit murder and mayhem but no... we got relationship drama. They should have known ages ago just by visiting the wiki, but if the cast knows then the writers are plainly ignoring it because they just don't care. Lol I wish it would have been comparable to Dark-Willow from Buffy (all over three awesome episodes). Bonnie with magic and the huntresses abilities. I would have like to see that and maybe she killing Caroline or something or at least something.

      Why did Joaquin leave in the first place? He was that other serpent that knew about the one that overdosed and knew FP. I like Jughead and I like character centric episodes... to bad TO everything is Hope Centric. Nighthawk sounds like an interesting title name. Can't wait.

      Get to Veronica via Archie. That sounds plausible. That sounds a bit long winded to me. Seems like buy her love back would be quicker although she said herself that she was done with her old personality. Daddy Klaus was the neutering point of TO, over before it even began. Writers should learn to be impartial about their feelings and how to progress the plot... then again Damon was a saint so God forbid they do something to blemish that reputation... smh. Stefan calling Damon the better man was the flipping point. Like that was all fan service.

      Promotion with episode and character images. They look amazing! :)

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    • They should have Bonnie's snap every vampires neck. They need to stop dumbing down the witches for plot convenience. Realistically speaking, a witch would win against a vamp almost every time. A telekinetic neck snap would ended just like that. I was amazed at how amazed Stefan was from such a simple maneuver. Very few good things came out of S5, they could have at least made sure a Fireball fight was one of them. I've rewatched a few episodes of S2 recently, so it's just bringing back good memories. I'm past expecting anything good from the TO wolves, so I'd rather have them in the background if the only other option is dumbass werewolves front and center under Hayley's control. The Hollow had followers of all species, so that's the only reason the fight with Keelin doesn't bother me. We don't know what they were. They could have been humans or baby vamps. But if they were older vamps or witches, then Keelin should've got wrecked.

      I feel like their goal was focusing too much on sex. Like they wanted to make it extra sexy. That's not what I watch a supernatural show for. Yep. They had werepanthers. They were pretty much like the crescents but worse, they were redneck hicks, and I'm pretty sure there was actual inbreeding. I like that the show had more than just wolves but it just overall didn't interest me much. I kinda liked the shifters, but it got a little ridiculous. I think one guy turned into a fly once? There are were-species of all kind, but yeah, feline and canine are the most common ones. Some were-species don't have any background, they're made up, like werecoyotes, then there are other like werejaguars, with actually real world mythology behind them, but it all varies.

      I knew I shouldn't have but I just went to the list of werewolves pages. Man that was depressing. So many dead. A couple of them were good riddance. Same could definitely be said for the witches, and their inability to use the simplest of their magic ability to snap a neck lol

      This is what I expected. I got what I expected. A bunch of immature fan girls lashing out when they don't get their way. These writers certainly know how to breed a toxic fan base. DE, Klaroline, Klayley. Those bastards are ruthless and evil online. Like where are their parents? I feel like knowing would just make it easier to adjust. A sneak attack will not go over well with me.

      I just like how outspoken JoMo and DG are about their feelings towards the route their characters have taken. For instance, throwing Kol with Davina was a terrible idea. Even they know this. Kol should've hooked up with a psycho vamp chick that was just as crazy as him. That would've been fun to watch. I don't care what any Hunter/Huntress did before her, killing Caroline would've officially made Bonnie the best Hunter on TVD. I'm still disappointed that we never got to see any wolf or witch hunters. We've only see vamp hunters. I get its a vamp show, but everything doesn't have to be vamp specific.

      Joaquin helped FP dispose of the body. He was involved in the murder, so it was smart of him to get out of town. TO has been very Hope centric this season, but we knew that going in. Hope is the solution to all .There was even talk of her reuniting the factions, I wonder what happened to that.

      That's exactly what I was taking into consideration when I thought of that. Veronica's wise enough now to not fall for her father's old tricks, like buying her presents.. Impartial is a word that these writers aren't familiar with. Damon certainly didn't deserve a happy ending, but he got it bc JP loves him. In no way was Damon the better man. The guy killed for fun. He's a rapist. Caroline never should've made it this far, but she did bc JP loves her. Hayley will probably have her happy ending bc the TO writers love her. That may be the one good thing about JP taking over for S5, we don't really know how she feels about Hayley. Maybe she doesn't care for Hayley

      I like the new character images, especially Manfred's and Rev's

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    • The closest we got to that was a couple bone breaking spells on Kai and one (or two) of Julian's vampires. They've have to be experienced. A vampire's speed could get the better of them if they aren't prepared or if it's a surprise attack. But yeah, any other time, witches are top of the food chain and should dominate against vampires (I may be a little biased with that though XD). Lol, I think most users assume witches, but if that was the case then Freya and Josh would've been at a disadvantage, but human may be more like it, because up against Vincent, they offered no resistance.

      Yeah it should be meaningful and not just because its HBO. Ugh, supernatural redneck hicks, that's a bad combination... usually they are the gun carrying pricks that hunt the supernaturals. Into a fly is a bit extreme, while why have a shifter and several were species in the same show. That seems a bit overkill imo. I'm interested in how they explain the were-tiger bit since MTX is a sister series to TB. Not sure if there was actual crossover though. I read somewhere a character in TB eventually got a mine spot in another book but I don't think it was MTX.

      Lol Like I'm surprised if they survive the episode nowadays. XP used to they wouldn't. Speaking of do you recall any reason why the Werewove list is not alphabetical (like the witches?), that same user I referenced you was asking though I've been up since 2 am and I'm literally about to passout of exhaustion lol. Just didn't have the energy to really answer them.

      Ugh there is one/two Klaroliners like praising their support on the KC page today/yesterday and I'm like, that's a bit premature. lol I so don't want it hope just because it's trash, like the great majority of them, and just doesn't need it. They come up with the most baseless arguments to "justify" one or the other's toxic issues. Smh. I highly doubt they will be able to keep it quite should it happen. I'm pretty sure JP would be the first to spill the beans.

      I wished the actors would get more say. I understand why they don't but the writers can be jaded and something they need someone outside looking in to question whether something is truly worth doing. Kol's been neutered, plain and simple. Klaus too. Can't forget Elijah, though he and Klaus has their moments. I'd like to have seen that too. Kol acts like he has forever with Davina and he has like 60+ years. Hand down the best kill of the series. (Sybil/Seline would have been outranked lol). That was a bit curious, seems like wolf hunters (other than what Lucien did) would have been around too like vampire hunters. Witch hunters I think would have been harder to write unless they were focus on that as a single plot point.

      Was there any evidence to connect him though. I want to say other than the video (which I'm not 100% sure about) there's nothing that comes to mind. I mean I know he helped FP, but still. Season, nah. SERIES. Every thing has been Hope related. This season it's just worse and more in your face because she's not a baby anymore and can speak. Eh all they mentioned with that was to say there were 5 years of peace and everything went to crap with the Hollow back.

      I hope so. Veronica seems sure of her self and possible even hates her father, but I can see them trying to redeem him in her eyes. Very, Very true, but that is what we got from JP. I guess the only thing we can do is complain and attempt to move pass it, if possible. Ugh Hayley doesn't need a happy ending, that would be a great turn of events, though she could be swayed by fan opinion.

      Would you like them to be used for character profiles? I can crop a few and have new version of what's already up. I've been sticking to 400x500 portraits. I thought I'd at least used Chuy's promo so he'd have one.

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    • I guess it depends on the distance between the witch and the vampire, and how quick the witch is to respond. I remember Damon charging at Bonnie just to see how powerful she had gotten and she threw him across the room. Arrogance. And that's the reason they would lose in an all out war. Everyone knows how arrogant vampires are. I initially assumed witches is too, but since we never knew, I never classified it as a plot hole. Moonlight ring werewolf could easily rip apart a group of humans.

      Now that I think about it, the Crescents were pretty much a low-budget rip-off of the werepanthers. It was just silly. I can't take it seriously, someone turning into a fly, sounds like something from a kids comic book. That was something I thought about as well. If you have a shape-shifter that can shift into any animal, then that renders everything else useless. From what I've heard, TB and MTX are two completely different universes. But I'm definitely interested in what they do with the weretiger. All we know right now is that it turns into a tiger on a full moon. This is something I'm looking forward to the most.

      Same here. I knew Lara probably wasn't gonna make it out alive. Keelin's only around because they want to throw her in a relationship. I'd be all for keelin if she actually had something wolf related to do, if 90% of her interaction wasn't with Freya. I never realized the witch list was in alphabetical order. To my knowledge, there is no reason why the werewolf page isn't in alphabetical order. I think users just added the names as it went on. If the the witch page is in order, and he wants to organize the werewolf page the same, I see no reason why he shouldn't. I know the feeling. Take it easy. I'm sure he can wait till the morning.

      As literally everyone has predicted, Hope will be going to Xaviers School for the gifted youngsters. JP was so pissed off that she screwed up, as if everyone didn't already know this was gonna happen. Since it seems like we predicted that, there's a good chance Caroline will be crossing over too. It's time to accept it now even if we haven't got a confirmation. I learned a long time ago that you can't reason with a lot of shippers, especially DE shippers and Klaroliners. They will come up with the most nonsense excuse you ever heard just to justify their ship and explain why it's not abusive and toxic.

      Kol was genuinely one of my favorite characters on TVD, and now they've ruined him. It's pitiful. He's a neutered dog, and Davina's got his nuts in her purse. Not to mention that the Mortal/Immortal relationships never work. They should at least hear the actors out. They clearly know what the fans want. The death of the siren sisters is definitely number one right now. The only deaths that can out rank that is Hayley's and Caroline's. I don't really count with Lucien did. They were unaware, and they hunted they incest clan. We know they're idiots. I agree that with witches it could be a little more difficult to write. Still wanna see it tho

      You're right. It was only the video that could connect him to the murder, which the police now had, so they would be coming for Joaquin. The footage showed Clifford killing Jason, and then FP and Joaquin cleaning up the mess. Ah yes. The entire series is hope centric. But this season just being generally trash combined with Hope being shoved in our face, just makes it more obvious than ever.

      From what we've heard, Hiram is just a terrible person, so I think he's just gonna try to manipulate Veronica. It would almost make JP taking over worth it, if she didn't like Hayley. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

      I think we should use all of them for the characters, at least until we get something better or the show premieres.

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    • Distance is a factor, but plot also affects it too. I believe that was right after she gain the power of the Bennett Coven. I love it every time Bonnie proves Damon wrong. His and Stefan arrogance annoys me. Klaus has been that way at times, especially towards witches. Witches, as a collective would wreck vampires. NO witches they have the power to take back their city, easy! But they "can't" because they can't write a story like that. But they could. I don't get why, they've only stated that for a few but considering the Hollow used werewolves and humans to do it's bidding, well it's hard to tell, but those that I used as an example, never used any supernatural abilities, so probably human.

      Yeah a human supernaturally changing their shape into a fly just seems a bit farfetched. But yeah, if you have that, why even focus on "were"-anything. It seems a bit much, tbh. The "Tiger" bit is unique, but I hope that what it can do is unique as well, something that sets it apart from werewolves, if they are introduced as well.

      Lara was just sad. Now that the "cure" for Marcel's bite has been made, Keelin is pointless and if the only think that is keeping her is the relationship, she should have left. I don't see her getting a story beyond that and I doubt she will go live with the crescents lol. Alright, sure. Some pages, I'm just oblivious to XD.

      This is going to end on a crappy note. Like we need that rip off school. Smh. JP knew what she was doing, when I read that interview posted on their page. That is denial big time. Like 95% of the ships were toxic and abusive. And they want to try to romanticize that and get pissy when someone smears the God-send that is Damon or whoever. Yeah okay. They need to learn and look at everything as a whole. That's like an abusive husband and the wife saying it's her fault. But whatever, they will get the facts spouted out to them regardless and they look silly trying to defend it. It's laughable, really.

      TVD Kol was much better. Resurrecting him as Kaleb was a mistake, imo. Sure I liked him as a witch but they completely changed him and then stuck him with Davina and developed feelings. Vampire/Human relationships never work out. Hayley and Caroline will never die, because they have uber plot armor and they will never kill the "mothers". Witches losing to Humans ( or werewolves) seems a bit lame but then again, they will write anything and pass it off as "good".

      Yeah don't see how they will get around that. Hopefully nothing lame like the footage was lost. smh. Lol every like moment is about Hope. Defeating the Hollow can only be done by Hope. Now the Hollow is possessing Hope. Oh no we need to send Hope away. Smh this is worse season because she is more shoved in our faces. IF they send her away they should just "do away" with the character. I can seem him like the King Pin. Lol Manipulating everyone to get further along. Replace Hayley with Caroline with JP's takeover, not sure which is worse of the two evils.

      I'll see what I can do. :)

      Edit: Cropped versions like what are currently used? or the entire promo.

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    • Yep. She was pretty much fully charged, and Damon still tried her. It was definitely satisfying to see her throw his ass across the room. The salvatores' arrogance is through the roof, but this is to be expected with vampires. Exactly. It didn't serve the story, therefore it couldn't happen. Nola has how many covens? I'm pretty certain they could have easily taken down S1 Marcel and his army. We saw what Katie did. If not for Klaus, Marcel would have been dead right there. Yeah, there was nothing that really stood out about the followers in that scene. They showed no strength, speed or anything kind of supernatural abilities. Human is a safe bet.

      They mention werewolves in the synopsis, so I'm pretty sure they're going to turn up eventually. I really hope that they make the weretiger unique, something to distinguish them from the wolves. I don't want it to be like TW, where the werewolf and werecoyote are pretty much the same species.

      How they came up with the cure for Marcel's bite still doesn't even make sense to me but I'm trying not to focus on that too much. Keelin's been pointless since the premiere. It doesn't have to be that way so long as they give the wolves their own story line away from Hayley, but that's never going to happen, so Keelin is just going to be stuck with Freya, doing nothing most of the time. Moral support, I guess. I get it. I've been on the wiki for five years, and just realized there's a page titled "last words". How the hell does that happen?

      Some people are trying to be optimistic by thinking that the school will take place off screen, but we all know there's no way that's going to happen. I haven't read any recent interviews but I know JP ended a ship bc it was abusive or something like that, which pretty much applies to almost all TVD/TO ships. The worst part about her romanticizing the abuse is that a lot of these fans fall for it like it's the absolute best thing in the world. When they started blaming Tyler for biting Caroline after Klaus made him do it, and then calling Klaus a hero when he healed her, that's when I knew there was no logic when it came to klaroline shippers.

      I agree that resurrecting him as Kaleb was a mistake, but it was a fixable mistake. Now, I don't think he can be fixed. With Davina, he's a mushy little love sick puppy, without her, he's a crybaby. They ruined Kol with this so-called development. If only there was some way to develop a character without throwing them into a ship. Oh well, such an unheard-of concept. The idea isn't anything I'm hung up on but it wouldve been cool to see

      Something drastic is going to have to happen if FP and Joaquin are ever to be free of being thrown in jail. I knew it was going to be bad bc she was older, but I can't take every other line being about Hope. And I really hate how they turn what was supposed to be Vincent's story into Hayley and Hope's story. Easily their worst season. Hope sucks. Hayley sucks. Hollow sucks. Triple H. We all know Hope's send off will only be temporary but if we could get a few episodes without her, that would be cool. Yeah. Haley's plot armor is stronger, and she's typically more annoying, but with Caroline comes klaroline, plus all the annoying self entitled shippers. Gun to my head, I think Id take Caroline over Hayley.

      Alright. Whatever works best

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    • I thought so too. :) Empowered Bonnie is always good especially when she's kicking Salvatore butt. That's what doesn't make any since to me. They had Nine Covens and Marcel only had "control" of the quarter. The other Covens could have stepped up, the Regent could have stepped up. They definitely had the power, their connection was still present.. why they just didn't: Plot. Human was what I was leaning towards.

      I hope so too. I'm not sure if I could take two species that are practically the same except their end shape.

      Same crap they pulled with how Bonnie unlinked Elena. Might as well as just move on from it, because that's as good of an answer as we'll get. Yeah she'll probably get more pointless screen time and shoved in the background only to pop up whenever Freya needs a reminder about living life or something. Lol yeah I guess :P. It's an interesting page for the deceased.

      Offscreen would be better than in our faces about it. Plus that would eliminate Hope screentime. A user posted it on the Klaroline page. smh. JP is just annoying. Probably because they are stupid underage/tween girls that just find them attractive especially with an accent. It's unreall what they fall for. Lol they have no logic and it's ridiculous.

      I agree, they've went too far and he wont be the same Kol since he's with Davina. I wouldn't call it development, they don't know what to do with him, so they put him with Davina. In doing so they didn't really have anything else for Davina. They ran themselves into a circle.

      Drastic as in Hiram, I hope (and not footage went missing). The whole possession thing now is beyond ridiculous. They have a 7 year old playing a 1500 year old witch. Because they have the acting knowledge to pull that off. A crapping ending, I'm sure to expect.

      Vincent seems to have been underplayed and he's been out of the last, what?, three episodes... I hope he comes back and just wrecks them all, using the Hollow's journal. Triple H of a crappy season. Any send off will be a moment of relief. Hmm. Idk. Caroline and Klaus comes all the shippers. At least atm, we have more people that hate Hayley so that is always fun to read about.

      I'll upload a couple and see how they look. I've not looked to see if I could find higher quality version without the Yahoo watermark, but we'll see.

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    • It just didn't seem right to me. We now know that Vincent wanted to do something about it back when he was with Eva but other than that, no one really seemed interested in stopping Marcel outside of the French Quarter witches. Why would witches allow their own kind to be enslaved by vampires, when they can easily do something about it? Other than plot convenience, there is no other answer I can think of.

      That would very much annoy me. Weretigers are unchartered territory, they can pretty much do whatever they want with them. Go wild with it.

      " it took some time" still pisses me off after two full seasons of we're just going to have to wait this out for Elena to wake up. It's pretty sad that she's nothing more than Freya's sidekick, but she's not a Crescent or annoying af, so there's a couple positives. Makes me wonder what other pages are on that Wiki that I haven't discovered yet. There's over 2000, I couldn't have been to all of them.

      I agree that off screen would be better, but it's never going to happen. I'm going to have to read that. I could use a good laugh. Haha, if TVD has taught me anything, its that an attractive guy can get away with anything, especially if he's constantly giving an arrogant ass smirk or like you said, an accent. Somebody shippers will believe anything you throw in their face. They eat it up that, and JP knows this.

      Oh yeah, there was a heap of sarcasm when I said development. It's like Kol has devolved into this completely different character, and now we've seen this new character with and without Davina, and either way he sucks. Not surprised by this move. It's their favorite move. Just upset that Kol had to suffer bc of it

      They can't even get Phoebe to portray Hayley accurately, and now they got a seven year old trying to play an ancient witch. This is going tk be bad, and it's going to be hilarious. There was no fear or excitement aspect to the Hollow when she was looking like Davina 2.0. There definitely won't be any now. It's like they're intentionally writing this show to be bad.

      I'm annoyed that he's missed that many episodes. The season is already short. But that's what I'm counting on. Vincent missing so many episodes could possibly be made up for if he comes back like a boss, and wrecks the Hollow, and anyone else he feels like. Hayley hate is fun but I'd rather read about how happy everyone is that she's gone. That would truly be fun.

      I've looked for unmarked images, but I couldn't find any. I'm semi decent with Photoshop. I've removed watermarks before. I can try if necessary. Just let me know.

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    • Plot convenience is the only answer. Which, in the grand scheme of the show and what they are capable of doing, is stupid. The whole first half of the season irked my nerves to no end because of this. Katie was a legit awesome witch and Klaus killed her, that sucked and I wanted to see more of her after she begin to take down Marcel. Vincent, let alone his role, Eva and their baby wasn't thought of until later. If that were true then, witches would have come together, otherwise bowing down to a vampire doesn't make sense.

      I hope so, since I've never seen it done before, and can't wait. I just don't want another flop with other incarnations being based on shape-change.

      They could have let her go imo after the weapon to kill Marcel was created. She's not really been needed for the plot, at all. However, even her initial introduction with the "I hate being a werewolf" and the I slowed the healing factor crap, she's still the best werewolf atm, though I guess that's not saying much as she's the only one. Lol there are some that continues to amaze me whenever I come to a new page that I've not been to before.

      Nope. I wonder what direction they are going for S5. I just can't see them going the school route and back to Mystic Falls. Like it wouldn't even be "The Originals" at that point. TVD has done that quite a few time, though there are some that stick out, though that is Julie pandering to fans and the toxic ships. She just doesn't know how to write a good relationship and that is sad. Reminds me of other show that promote such abusive and toxic ships and people eat it up like candy, but it's not believable and therefore, for me, makes a really bad plot.

      I know. Development made me laugh though. He more or less fell off a cliff at that point. Hmm not sure which is worse, with or without Davina. Without, he's mopey, angry and lovelorn, yet with Davina he's a different person, sweet and gushy and all love sick and head over heels. He's a freaking vampire that killed for fun or mascaraed a church in order to kill a single person. Smh.

      More bad than hilarious. Fan already hate Hope (and Hayley) this is onyl fueling the flames. And it's going to explode. Intentionally... yeah I can see that. Maybe MN wanted it to end with him and wrote it badly so it wouldn't have gotten a 5th season, or so that when JP took it over, it would be too bad for her to fix. Lol the spite of it all. XD One can dream.

      Well he took the Journal back from Marcel. Not sure how that is going to be beneficial to stopping the Hollow. Plus their weak answer on who wrote it and how it showed up in Vincent's possession. If the power is from the Hollow and they "defeat" it using it's own magic will make noooo since whatsoever. I'd like to see him come back and wreck them all... but then again, JP could use that as a jumping to to go back to MF. Hayley hate is fun. If she was gone, people would just jump to another to hate.

      Sorry for the late reply. Jolsarygt found a a bit hq versions that lack the watermark. I've uploaded new portraits for all. Let me know what you think. Also, great work on the banner :) Looks good. I wished they would have taken my suggestion about being about to change the intensity of the coloration over top the image. But I guess not from what I can change/view.

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    • Marcel's little army wouldn't have stood a chance against all those witches. That's not the only thing that bothered me. The wolves could have stopped him as well. The crescents were stuck in wolf form, but they had all their powers too. They even seemed to be in full control several times throughout S1. How in the hell did they not take the opportunity to wipe out every vamp in Nola? Sure. They would still be cursed, but at least the people responsible for it would be dead. Makes no sense. Two species, both capable of stopping the vamps, neither species does anything. It's absurd.

      Hyped for ep 2 just for the tiger. It's been a long wait. A little more over a month left. I'm ready.

      Hate that knife. Why is Lucien's ashes needed anyways?. What medical nonsense did Keelin actually do? How does supernatural mix with natural. All bs. That's depressing af. Our greatest werewolf is the same one that took away one of the few perks. I can't find the logic in that. She even admits that you can either heightened or dampen the power, why not heighten it? Taking away the healing won't stop you from becoming a wolf every month.

      I don't see them going back to Mystic Falls either. I think they're going to somehow bring the school to Nola. You'd think someone that's so obsessed with writing in ships would actually be good at it. We get toxic ship after toxic ship after toxic ship, and the few good ones typically end with death. I usually jus dont care about ships, so long as they keep it balanced and out of my face.

      He did more than fall off a cliff. Kol fell into a volcano, and from there they started from scratch with a whole new character, who just happens to have the same name and background. I actually hadn't given much thought into which one is worse, with or without Davina. I'd have to think about that. Kol has committed several massacres, never once did he shed a tear. Davina dies, and we get flooded at Krybaby Kol's water park

      Well, if his plan was to intentionally write this season so bad that we would hate it, he's done a great job so far. It would certainly explain why there's so many retcons in one season. But his plans ultimately failed. I have no idea how TO got a 5th season.

      There must be some kind of spell in the journal that will help in stopping the Hollow. It wouldn't be that surprising considering its own symbol represents how to kill it, according to Freya. Also possible that the journal will make Vincent stronger through some form of dark magic. Logically, I see no reason for them to go back to MF. But I guess it could happen. This would mean writing off or killing Marcel or Vincent. That's gonna kill me. I lose two favorite characters only for two characters I hate the most (Caroline and Hayley) to be thrown in my face even more. That's a nightmare.

      They new portraits look great. So its seem like this is the permanent design for all wikis. I've come around a tiny bit. Don't hate it as much as I did with the initially testing. Thanks! I've noticed in my five years that they often ask for suggestions and improvements but they rarely lead to anything. Staff is gonna do what staff is gonna do. They listen occasionally tho

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    • Lol I never even thought about the wolves. That makes s1 worse. Like Did they not know their bit can kill a vampire, regardless of in the sun or not, they could have taken back the city. The witches could have aligned with the wolves and taken the city. They would be curse though if they worked together then maybe the witches would have broken the curse. All should've, could've would've at this point, but begs the question why they didn't. Poor writing and plot convenience if you can even call it that. They just love the oppression.

      I'm most definitely hyped for Fiji. XD the weretiger is growing on me.... well everything has me hyped. XD (still need to finish those dang books XD. Work and stuff is just sapping my energy.)

      They never explained that and it doesn't make any sense to begin with. Lucien was reverted back to his original status. How does that help to kill Marcel, like they would ever explain that. Yup and there is no logic. I still contend she would be dead. She didn't cure herself, she still would have had to change on the Full moon, without supernatural healing of breaking all the bones in your body to change into a wolf. She should have been laid up in a hospital come the next moon. But she has her "cure" now with the ring. smh.

      Did you see the casting call for Hope? Apparently they are recasting Summer and a user on spoilerTV is claiming the purchased the slides and she's now in highschool. Looks like we're getting another time jump and we're skipping it altogether, maybe. Bringing the school to NOLA. I just can't even wrap my brain around it. I notice an anon commented on Alaric's page about the school and it made me smile. At least others find the lack of logic in this enterprise. Generally I don't either. Out of the 50 they have, I may like one, and that is about it. I can tolerate some but most annoy me.

      Lol crybaby Kol water park. Yup I guess you live like a human for a couple of month, or for however long he was back, you just completely change.

      I've been wondering the exact same thing. The direction it's heading for s5, they should have just ended it with s4. But who know, maybe we will be surprised for s5. Then again, it will likely be much worse.

      Oh I don't doubt the absurdity of it. Smh, the Hollow's own magic/spells will likely be what undoes her. Surprise, surprise. The only good thing would be Vincent getting stronger, or maybe a Dark.Vincent plot. Not sure if I'd like the latter because we kinda already saw that with Finncent but who know what the journal will do to him. That you definitely be a down grade.

      This is true. It's still a getting use to kinda thing. Between the two wikis I've frequent it was a pain to have to see it all in different locations so at least it's all the "new normal" now, so we shall see.

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    • Looking back on it, even though S1 was the best season IMO, there were so many flaws. A lot of what happened didn't have to happen. Since most of Marcel's Army consisted of nightwalkers, the wolves and/or witches could have attacked at night, and literally wiped out his whole Army in one swoop. They were baby vamps, meaning weak and inexperienced. Both sides would've benefited. Through an alliance, the wolves would be uncursed, and the witches would be free of Marcel's tyranny. They really dumbed-down everyone to make S1 work.

      I'm hyped for everything as well, but Rev and Olivia are definitely at the top of that list as far as hypeness is concerned. With everything I got going on, I can't even keep up with the shows I'm watching, let alone read some books.

      Exactly. It's like what does Lucien have to do with Marcel? Yeah, they were the same species but that's irrelevant. Lucien was never a part of the actual spell. I like how they conveniently skipped over the process of creating the blade, most likely bc they couldn't write it in a way that it would make sense. Conveniently, Carina didn't answer that half of my question when I asked her on Twitter. Keelin should definitely be dead bc of the transformation. She only addressed that whole pain infliction nonsense with Freelin.

      Yep. I know all about the casting call with hope. Shae's happy. He called it. I don't listen to nothing these fans say without proof. They hear what they want. They see what they want. And they are delusional. I'll wait for confirmation of teenage Hope. I'll definitely take teenage hope over the school, but I'm worried about how OP they're going to make her. Yeah. I can tolerate most, but ships like DE, KC, HE. Those annoy me.

      I'm done with Kol. Until I see a change, I don't care about him anymore. He's uninteresting now.

      Well JP wrote S6 of TVD, and that was semi-decent. So I guess the best we can hope for is a season of that level. That would be a nice surprise if JP doesn't screw up the show even more

      Idiocy runs in that bloodline. I can't wait to meet the the next member of Crescents. They introduce a new one like every season. I'd be all for a dark Vincent storyline, even if only for a few episodes. I actually prefer if it was short. Just to see him be focused on, and for him to kick ass

      I've seen a lot of complaints about this new header. But I'm at least going to give it a chance

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    • I have to agree. S1 was good, but I hate it when they dumb things down to make the plot work. Seems like they would want intelligent characters. I would have been all for that scenario but I guess they didn't want Marcel to lose that power to the faction (only to Klaus). In hindsight, Klaus wasn't really even needed. If anything the Originals only made it worse for the witches and wolves.

      I'm interested in Olivia too (Loved TVD Lexi) and from what little she is featured in the first book, the second features her and Manfred more I think. I will at least attempt to get them read before the premiere, not sure how much wiki content I'll be able to add, atm, TVD is taking my time (what little I have of it).

      Their answer for everything is "Magic"... when half the time, you need more of an answer. Sure it's magic, but it has to make sense and seem real. That just goes to show you that they don't know and making things up, if you will via twitter. There was a debate about the sacred land where Esther created the first vampires and then again about Freya's comment about creating the dagger, -- "Freya’s blood, Esther’s Magic" where depending on grammar could me two things (i.e. Esther's magic is Freya's magic because they are biologically related or it was something of Esther's that she created, etc.) If it was so important, why didn't they take an extra minute to explain it in the show (they change their minds on twitter all the time or tweets get deleted, whatever suits the story in the moment). Lucien's ashes were not relevant at all, imo, it makes no sense. Carina is stupid... it was pain infliction, point blank. And like you said, regardless, she should be dead from changing into a wolf. Backed into a corner, she just ignored it, because that made it all better. XD

      I don't know if I can take a spin off show about Hope either. Smh. Seems like with such a big time jump, they will be doing away with the cast next season otherwise they will have to age everyone up. I mean 10-15 years, people will look different. How are they going to explain that (unless they make the Mikaelson slumber again. smh. This just seems bad all the way around -- especially OP Hope -- you know they will. Hope does everything right the first go around and doesn't struggle with anything -.- so much sense right there. That is one thing that is so annoying to me. Some "fan"-atics can't take their blinders off to see the whole picture. Thing basically take all the little pieces that seem good (or the worse parts) and ignore the rest and that is what makes their argument sound, when it doesn't. Those ships annoy me. Imo, there is no "good" ship in TO, unless it's just a friendship. I like Davina and Josh (and Aiden) and that is roughly all that seem well developed imo.

      I'm no longer interested in Kol either. Witch Kol was okay, but just can't take him seriously anymore since he's been neutered.

      Lol she doesn't have much good to work with, so it will be interesting just to watch and see how she attempts to make it better, if you can even suggest that. S6 was okay, but JP was hating on Bonnie for that season but she had strides with her character develop so, better than others for sure.

      Most witch shows have a chapter for a dark saga. Bonnie never really went "dark" though the huntress part was close enough. I'd like to see dark Vincent though it depends on the story that caused it. If he didn't go dark like Eva did, I don't much see it happening now though.

      I'll give it a chance, not like we have a choice in the matter.

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    • That certainly backfired on them. I guess the witches assumed that Klaus would come to town, take down Marcel, and just leave. They screwed themselves with that. They had a much better chance of taking dthearcel and his army, than they do the Originals. It just seems dumb to even risk something like that, especially if you're aware of what the Originals are capable of.

      Lexi was cool. I know it's a vampire show, but I honestly don't care for many from that species. She's one of the few that I liked. I know that feeling. Wiki eating your time but at least after the finale, you'll be able to pace yourself and do it at a steady rate.

      Magic is rarely ever a suitable answer but that's pretty much what they give us, even recently, like how Marcel's bite can even kill Klaus despite hybrids being immune. I also wondered what she meant by Esther's Magic. They were very vague about that. Exactly. Twitter answers rarely stick. MN said on Twitter that Marcel's bite had white oak, he then deleted the tweet. There's been no mention of white oak since. It amazes me how anyone allowed this group of people to run a show. I'm even further amazed that they got another season. We all know that if you pretend that something isn't there, it'll just go away. So she did just that with the first half of that question.

      I hate the thought of it. But she could never get a spin off. Hope doesnt have the support for it. Davina and Vincent are probably gonna be ditched in s5. They're mortal, so they'd definitely age after like a 10 year time jump. Not sure about Freya. She's a Mikaelsons. Well, I guess they could use spells to slow down the aging. That one witch from S3 of TVD did it. If kid Hope is pulling all this crap effortlessly, there's not a doubt that she's gonna be Tribrid Jesus next season. She shouldn't have the power that she does, nor should she be using it so easily. Like I said, all the semi-healthy and normal ships typically end in death bc that's how all normal relationships work apparently.

      Kol is sadly just another vamp to make the list of watered down and neutered vamps. I'm sure he won't be the last.

      With the reveal of this time jump, and Hope's love interest, I'm looking forward to it even less. Well, S6 followed up S5, h, so that's quite the feat. I feel like JP hates on Bonnie in just about every season, so it's nothing new.

      If they give Vincent a dark Saga, I want it to be short and sweet. I don't like how they shifted Eva's story. We knew she was kind of a rebel and radical back in the day, but they made it the Hollows fault. I preferred when I thought Eva was that way just bc.

      Exactly. We just gotta live with it

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    • Yeah. The witches could have done it on their own, however, that's the plot for ya. If they had written it another way then we wouldn't have "The Originals", well any more less than we already do. lol. The funny part about it is Sophie knew of Elijah, the Original in a suit lol. It was funny to even think that they could control Klaus because of his one-night stand child.

      Lexi and Rose were like the only two vampires I really like (Trevor was short lived too, sad). Can't really pick out any others. That and other things, but yeah once TO is finished then it will be a bit easier to get things updated.

      Lol I was about to ask if they confirmed that, but then I remembered Davina was attempting it. Poor answer. Yeah I don't see how anyone can take it seriously because they change their minds and delete tweets or they provide an even more crazy answer then the first and we get no where. I have no idea, but it's successful enough to pass... you know like in school a C or whatever, scrapping by to get to the next grade. They're basically flunking but got a pass :P

      I seriously hope they don't green light it. We've already basically had the show all about her (and Hayley) since the spin off and now, one solely about her would just be torture. Ugh I hope not, but I don't see how they can have a large time jump and explain it right. I don't see Davina coming back then again with Jol in the finale, she could come back and turn her into a vampire. At this point anything is possible and I wouldn't put it past them to do that to her, so she and Kol could have an eternity ever after. Yeah I guess (btw Gloria). That'd be a pretty poor excuse though, just for a time jump. OP Hope is annoying, especially after everything they talked about not being able to control her power. That is why they end in Death, because they are normal and healthy. Can't have that getting in the way of the toxic ones... people will begin to doubt what id good and right in the world. lol

      That's just a crappy way to introduce new features... like the first thing you release is an aged up Hope and a new LI, like really! I don't want more relationship drama. Smh why can't they ever learn that with a supernatural show. I feel like the first part of 6 though she really just dumped on Bonnie, more so than normal.

      I like Eva's story before the Hollow. It felt like they completely re-wrote it with that info. With the new episode, it doesn't look like they will use the Manual to turn Vincent dark, though I'd like something unexpected to come from it, either with him or the Hollow. Although if he dies... I'd love to see him reunited with Eva, both finding peace and definitely answering the whole soul thing with her. (not that I want him to die, I just want something meaningful to come from it).

      Some things I like, others I don't. But maybe they will continue to tweak it..

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    • Klaus' response to the witches' threat to kill Hayley and the baby was exactly what I expected. He wouldnt care but he'd get pissed off and threatened to kill all of them. The only reason he didn't is because Elijah was there. And he wasn't even a part of their plan. They got lucky.

      Lexi, Sofya and Enzo (S5 and S6) for. Didn't really care about the rest of the vamps.

      I forget what the exact answer was as to how Marcel's bite can kill Klaus but MN tweeted something stupid that had to do with the magic used in the spell. The worst part is that some of these fans take these tweets as like the word of God. There was a discussion on the enhanced vampire page the other day, and one user kept mentioning one of MN's tweets, as if it's actual canon. I wouldn't rate TO anything above a D. I feel like they put very little effort into this season.

      A spin off isn't even a concern of mine. No way the network is giving her another show. TO's a flop. She ruined TVD. And Containment was cancelled after 1 season. I feel like too big of a time jump could definitely lead to a lot of plot errors and inconsistencies but they're gonna do it anyways. I don't think Davina will become a vampire but I do think she'll be in the finale, at least to say goodbye to Marcel. It was weird that she didn't stop to see him before leaving. It would be a lazy excuse but at least slowing down the aging would make sense, and it would explain why they didn't age. Dahlia claimed that Hope would lose control and go on rampages. What the hell happened to that? What happened to the wolf gene? I haven't see one moment of aggression from Hope.

      TO is entering what will come to be known as 'the age of Julie Plec and the shitty shipyard'. Ships will always come first. So, it comes as no surprise that one of the first pieces of info we get about S5 is Tribrid Jesus all grown up, and a love interest. I remember a couple years back JP said in an interview how she likes to think of TVD being mainly about developing relationships with a sprinkle of supernatural or some bs like that. Maybe she did dump on Bonnie more. It's been a while. I'd have to rewatch S6.

      Exactly. They didn't retcon her story but I feel like it was rewritten to suit the plot, like Richard Xavier Dumas. Although, no one cares about him. I preferred Eva as this radical witch just bc. Some people truly are born that way. They should've left it at that. Not sure about Vincent. He said he can control it, but I feel like that's just what they want us to think. But I guess it's not happening now that the book is destroyed. If he dies, he has to go out like a champ. Vincent has to go down kicking a ton of ass.

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    • I didn't expect Klaus to really be threatened by it, but given Elijah and even Rebekah, the responses from all parties fit really well. I think I would have rather liked to have seen Jane Anne for a bit, you know converse with Klaus and him threaten her or something before Marcel killed her, smh. Oh well.

      Sofya was pretty good until she became a LI this season. Her return in 4x11, was pretty decent though (well other than the parts where she and Marcel were together.) Same could be sad for Enzo. I feel like they ran out of story with him after the whole Armory plot, because the he was only with Sybil for a couple episodes then it was all relationship drama/stuff with Bonnie. Smh the stark contrast between her and Freya... I'd to see them take away Freya's magic (ha then the Mikaelsons will be in trouble).

      I've seen a few edit wars over this, the one you mentioned most recently. Users should learn to take that with a grain of salt because it can change and if it was truly important it would have found it's way in the show. I still don't get the need to constantly compare. Particularly the Enhanced and Upgraded Originals. Two "different" shows and the bickering over it is just unnecessary. The Same can be said about the "Most Powerful" witches (Dahlia, Qetsiyah, etc.). Like each feat is their own, each witch can accomplish similar spells with vast differences, etc., etc., the comparisons just bring out arguments that can't be settled, especially with each side thinks they are right. Well.. the only reason I gave it a C is because that is passing. XD

      If JP can pull it off the network is stupid. Containment was only ever meant to be a limited series, they announced that from the beginning, probably why it was ruined by her. Yeah I guess we should brace for another horrible season, maybe it wont be so obvious like this season was though, not saying it wont be a bad season, just less in your face about it. Hmm, didn't notice that before. Yeah she went out of her way to see and say goodbye to Josh but not Marcel. Hmm that is weird. I guess they didn't have the time for two of those scenes and had to give Josh something to do. They can't show princess Hope acting out... God forbid they ruin the sweet seven year old. -.- Dahlia should have just taken her and been on her merry way.

      This I have no doubt. The first bit of info we get is about a new LI for an aged up Hope, Roman.... smh. That is not what we want to see or hear. Better yet, she thought the "Succubus" storyline was "too dark"... smh. it's a supernatural show. Not a soap opera... well it wasn't supposed to be but practically is not.

      Hers and Richard's were. It's sad. Eva was great and before the Hollow, it was all about power to become stronger than a Regent, then they twisted it into power from the Hollow. Smh. They should have left her alone. That whole line about looking like "one of them" to Marcel was suspicious lol. Maybe he's already dark, doubtful, but we'll see with the finale. Yeah, I don't want him to die, but if he does, it needs to be EPIC!. Not some bs like the Hollow (post resurrection) or like Dahlia. smh. They need to be better at this.

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    • It was a very foolish plan, looking back on it. Yeah, Sophie tied her life to Hayley's, but what good would that do? If they knew of Klaus' reputation, then they should have known that he would slaughter them all for even attempting to manipulate him. Lol, Marcel was a super dick in S1. He can still be a dick but S1 was when it was at maximum capacity.

      At least I got the chance to prepare myself for that. They announced beforehand that Sofya would be Marcel's LI. Two characters that I like separate but don't care for together. I hate that she was forced to become a love interest. I love it when she's in action tho. I hate what they did to Enzo. The Damon Salvatore treatment. Bonenzo was one of the most random ships ever, behind Caroline and Ric. The Mikaelsons would be royally screwed without freya's magic.

      The power level difference between the upgraded Originals and the enhanced Originals is so obvious that it really shouldn't be a debate. Ric couldn't even stake Klaus, yet Lucien/Marcel are taking out multiple Originals at a time. The debate should end right there. It's obvious who's more powerful. I don't really pay much attention to what the writers say, especially if it contradicts something we already know. As for the witches, I feel like there are arguments like that every other week. There really is no way to establish who is the most powerful witch because they all accomplished various and distinctive feats under varying circumstances and different types of magic, for example who's to say that creating the first vampires is a greater feat than creating the first wolves?

      The CW officially becomes the dumbest network if they give JP another show after this. I guess that's the best we can hope for. A season where the retcons and idiotic plot is less obvious. And less boring. This season has been boring af. It was just oddly uncharacteristic of Davina to not say goodbye to Marcel but yeah they probably ran out of time with all the filler scenes. Lol that would've been awesome had Dahlia won, and gotten away with Hope.

      I hate that excuse. I hate the too supernatural excuse as well. What the hell does that even mean? How is a supernatural show too supernatural? By that she probably meant that it would take away from the boring relationship drama.

      Eva was incredible. She was a fun and well written character. But I guess we can't have that on TO. I'm going to be extremely pissed off if they kill Vincent, but if it does happen, he needs to go out like a super badass, and he needs to stay dead .

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    • If it wasn't for Elijah stepping in Klaus would have left or dealt with the threat. Yeah for a witch fan, Marcel's introduction was a complete turnoff. I don't think I've gotten past that over the seasons, there are other things that bug me but that really set the tone for the season, and for me it was negative from the get go.

      Yeah we got some warning about that one. I've grown to like Sofya, separate/single, would've been much better. It just seemed too forced, especially with a time jump, for both Sofya/Marcel and Bonnie/Enzo.

      Caroline and Alaric was random, but not random, if that makes sense. Like she was magically impregnated with Alaric's kids, it's still random, but Alaric stepping up seemed expected. Plot Witch. You can't kill Freya off, otherwise you'll need a new witch to do their dirty work, and it's not going to be Vincent (by choice), that in itself is plot convenience. Bonnie had that for a while and when she was the Anchor, they brought in Liv. It's their failset, or better yet, loophole and get outta jail free when they need to fix or explain something. Freya is no different, though, as I expected, she would be used to fix everything.

      Between Upgraded and Enhanced original, I just don't see the need to compare, the situations are different, written by different people and perspectives and for plot, for whatever reasons. I feel like the only way to do it accurately would have been if they actually fought each other. Currently, for me it's too of an indirect way. Someone is always going to view it differently even though to most it may seem obvious. I prefer to stay out of it, even with the witches. That is my point exactly. There is a comment thread currently about who's the smartest, based on their spell work, and I'm sitting over here, you can calculate levels of smartness based on the spells a witch created? Do enlighten... Each witch is unique... I mean that was one of the defining things that was said about Grimoires. Yeah witches can be gifted or genius, over average witches, but to constantly try to out rank the top ones is just mind-numbing. Especially the perpetual Qetsiyah vs. Dahlia debate (and apparently the descendants Bonnie vs. Freya now).

      "Who's to say that creating the first vampires is a greater feat than creating the first [were]wolves?" --That is an interesting comment. Great logic and you can't really answer it, it does put things into perspective when you ask it in that manner. I may have to borrow that logic in the future. XD

      If they do give her another show it needs to be a limited series only, anything past that is stupid. Yeah it's sad to think that is the best possible thing to look forward too. This season has had it's (individual) moments here and there, Vincent mostly, the rest has been trash. Yeah no I get that. I mean especially after that little speech that Marcel gave to her grave (with her there). Seems like they would have opted for that versus a scene with Josh, then again, he's not really been useful this season either. I was hoping for this. Dahlia take Hope away and she erase their memories, Esther may or may not have known, but still been alive. I would have like that Ending.

      Because I come to watch a supernatural for, wait for it, ... the relationships. Heck no. I want to see supernatural action. Vampire and Werewolf fights, witches casting spells and working elaborate rituals, etc., the list goes on, but we get a "supernatural" love triangle.

      They should have stuck to the AP being severed and Davina being dead. They make death so meaningless. I mean look at Elijah, they killed him off for what a whole episode before they brought him back. The Hollow was alive for literally that interval of time, now possessing Hope. Recycled plots, coming back around with possession, once again. They end up making resurrection look so easy and they wonder why fans scream and shout at them to bring characters back, because they only do it for stupid reasons. Like I could literally see the Hollow bringing back Eva and be like, "get in line Vincent..." and it would be pointless too.

      So NBC canceled Emerald City. Not sure how it will affect MTX

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    • Never really looked at it from the perspective of a witch fan, but I can see how that would piss all of y'all off. Must have sucked seeing the witches under the thumb of baby vampires, who they could easily defeat.

      Both pairings were definitely forced. Neither was needed. At least Sofya was still the same character more or less. They completely changed Enzo to suit Bonenzo.

      Carlaric was weird af. The entire baby plot was random. Only happened cuz Candace got pregnant. They could have easily just written her out, but instead JP went with pregnant vampire. Certainly one of the dumbest things to occur on TVD. And that is precisely why I say Freya is almost as safe from ever being killed off as Hayley. They need a willing witch almost as much as they need a purposeless non-original hybrid.

      It's a typical comparison. I'd be shocked if there weren't any. Two different types of Originals, it makes sense that people will want to know who's more powerful. It's like if they introduced a new breed of vampires or werewolves. One of the first things people would do is compare them to the first breed. Lol. I haven't been to the witch page in a few days but that sounds hilarious. How do you determine which witch is the smartest? Sure, some spells are more complex than others, but that's not an accurate portrayal of intelligence. Lol, if it puts an end to senseless bickering like who's the smartest witch, then by all means, you can borrow it.

      I just can't see a scenario where they give her anything other than a swift kick off their network. The moments of awesomeness in this season have been brief and too infrequent. There's just so much more bad than good. Don't really care for the Davina, but I hope for least one scene between those two in the finale. With Marcel being upgraded, I figured he'd be getting plenty action and he'd be a huge part of the story. That was clearly not the case at all. That ending sounds much cooler than the one we got with Dahlia.

      This is what happens when you put a successful supernatural show in the hands of a fangirl. I hope the network realizes that. In the end, you just end up with a poor-quality show that very few people watch.

      Smh. Kol said that there would be no saving. One season later, and here we are with saved Davina. It's like why even add that part with the stone shredding her soul if you were just going to make it meaningless? I think we all knew Elijah wasn't dead for good tho. I still don't get why the Hollow went through all that planning to be resurrected, only to allow Hayley to kill her, in order for her to go into Hope's body. Why not just do that from the start. I won't be surprised if they start resurrecting vampires and werewolves next.

      I heard about that a while ago. It does concern me. They're similar genre, and they were both set to air midseason. Hopefully, they'll promote MTX more, and with the book and true Blood following, we'll make it past S1

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    • It was annoying as all get out. smh. Witches in subjugation to baby vampires. They could have taken their city back at any time.

      Enzo yes. Sofya, eh. She came into the plot and left without too much backstory. This season it seemed like they built in the LI angle. Apparently Marcel is going off into the sunset with Rebekah though so who knows what will happen to/with Sofya. Supposedly she just leaves...

      Absolutely dumbest plot. They could have written her out. Even with the baby agenda, she wasn't really needed anyways. Plots revolving around babies are never any good, yet, writers tend to do it because of the actors. Sometimes they try to spin it off as re-branding, a fresh, new start, etc. (I believe they did this with Charmed), but for TVD, it was a horrible idea and didn't make sense with established canon (yet we got because of magic answer). They should have just left it as Kai as a complete monster who murdered his unborn nieces. Would have been 10x better. They do need Freya... they don't need the "purposeless non-original hybrid". Without her, they would have been dead when Dahlia showed up, or then with Lucien, or with Marcel, etc.

      I doubt it will like the bickering back and forth with the Enhanced and Upgraded Originals. People will believe what they want to believe. They will take any minute detail or Twitter "canon" and make it out to be the only thing that matters. The same with the "world's greatest witches" (and their descendants, now). I get the general consensus, less with the witches. There's a clear division. Though I guess people tend to want to compare things. Idk, maybe I just don't find the logic in that when they've not interacted (it lacks a proper control because they write the power abilities based on what is needed for the plot in that moment). It's died down a bit, just a couple of users. Things are dying down a bit for the summer/extended hiatus (even though we have the TO S4 finale Friday.) I'll keep it in the bank because that's a really good comment.

      Wouldn't JP be considered a seasoned, senior, etc., writer for the network. I mean I wouldn't consider her "great" by any means, but from a network POV, she does have 13 seasons of TVD/TO, and others. I just don't want to see anything else by her. If she's all into the romance, she needs to leave and work daytime soap operas.

      I think I'd like to see a reunion of Davina and Marcel. At this point, I don't even think Marcel knows that she's alive, unless it's revealed offscreen. Marecel's only had a couple of action scenes this season, which is surprising, though each time he's went up again the Hollow, he's been defeated. Stalemate/defeated when he and Klaus fought (under the Hollow's ruse)... hasn't really been enticing to say the least. Any ending with Dahlia taking Hope would have been better, but we got this. smh.

      Tbh, if they haven't realized it by now, then they never will. JP will forever be a fangirl that lives through her writing, however horrible it gets. I'm still surprised, TO got a S5. I wonder how much JP had to beg for it. lol

      It was filler crap to make it where Davina couldn't have been resurrected by Van. But yeah overall very pointless to have when they go against it anyways. Elijah is an Original. They won't kill him, or any others, off permanently unless it's the series finale. Can't say that 100% though because they killed off Finn and they write off Kol. Esther, Mikael and Dahlia, were all killed as well. But the core three... nah, they are safe. All we know that the Hollow wants is power.... like why or anything else is not know. Like Overall the season doesn't really have a point. The hollow wants power and that is it. Her resurrection was pointless, when she allowed herself to be killed by Hayley, pointless. Yes, Yes she could've just as easily have possessed Hope from the get go, but no... no sense whatever. Her actions, pointless.

      Yeah I have similar fears. Consider it's a supernatural-ish drama, doesn't seem like it bodes well, but in some interviews they're trying to get the TB fans interested so hopefully that's a huge plus. I hope it's a hit and we get a few more seasons.

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    • Plot convenience. It's a troubling matter when your writers are incompetent.

      Enzo used to be this badass vampire that did what he wanted. They never should have changed that. Yeah. Sofya was definitely kept around just to be in LI. I'm guessing there's going to be some kind of scene where she notices how Marcel and Bex look at one another or how they act around each other. She'll be able to tell they care about each other, and since Marcel was the only reason she was still n NOLA, she'll leave

      Without a doubt one of TVD's biggest retcons. I don't care what they say, they established earlier on that vampires can't procreate, therefore they cannot support human life either, let alone 2. As irrelevant as Caroline is, it would have been easy to write her off, but I guess JP can't go one season without living through her. This storyline was so forced. There was nothing wrong with leaving it as it was. They died at Kai's hands. On the contrary, they very much need the purposeless non original hybrid. Who else is going to throw the "Hope's mother card" is Klaus' face? Who else is gonna get the wolves killed? Who else is gonna be Mary Sue Supreme? Hayley is absolutely needed. It's not like anyone actually tunes in to watch the Mikaelsons.

      Twitter Canon is only ever acceptable under special circumstances, like Klaus' magical vasectomy, which they definitely should have thrown in there to make it actual Canon. Fair point with the power levels changing based on plot convenience. That happens way too often, with Hayley probably being the biggest offender. But it happens with a lot of characters. Lol. Keep it in the bank then. I'm sure a time will come when it will serve you greatly.

      There is one way that the network could continue to make money off of JP. Instead of giving her serious dramas or supernatural shows, give her a romance/teen drama. Of course, I wouldn't watch this show, but it's the only thing that would make sense if JP was to stay with the network. That would probably be a successful show. It's right up her ally.

      I could see Josh telling him either on or off screen that Davina is alive, unless she told him not to tell Marcel for whatever reason. I see a lot of talk about Marcel being one of Narducci's favs, which is true, but from watching this season I certainly couldn't tell. I definitely expected to see some ass kicking on his part. Kinda disappointed. Exactly. The villain would have won, and Hope would be gone. That's a win-win.

      Some people think that TO only got a fifth season because the network didn't want to end it at the same time TVD was ending. Not sure how true that is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I can't really see any other scenario where it would get another season.

      Ah yes. Davina's 'permanent' death kind of pushed forward the finale, but still, it's bs. They've proven that being an Original means nothing on this show, in spite of the name. Klaus and Elijah are the only Mikaelsons that I know are always safe. I feel like Bex could be killed off. But only if they can't get Nate back to kill off Kol. Presence and excitement wise, the Hollow has been weak af, along with her motives. Very similar to Dahlia's motives btw. An ancient powerful witch relative of Hope that wants her power.

      From what I've heard, the supernatural genre isn't really NBC's thing. Grimm was an exception, apparently. So, I'm a little worried. But I'm trying to stay positive

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    • Gah that's so predictable. Which is strange because Rebekah was on the opposite end of that last episode. Yeah they lost track of what to do with Enzo which was ultimately kept around to die for Bonnie's plot. They should have just stayed in Paris and let MF burn. Seriously without her, everyone would be dead (most several times over).

      Magic can fix everything, yet can foster a magical pregnancy. Smh. The lengths they will go for certain things. JP should have known better. Not like the show would have suffered without Caroline, and JP could have gotten over it. Yup, better without the daycare crap. THe show would have ending on (well hopefully) better terms. Lol a show about the Mikaelsons... like we would ever get that. The Daycare Diaries with the spinoff, The Babysitters is a much, much better show. <_<

      Twitter canon is like last resort, kinda info, like if there is no other info to explain it. I feel like we should get this info about Alex St. John, her death is disrupted with deleted scene (yet they aren't canon X|... idk with that one). Do you have a link to that? I'd like to see how it was explained. (I assume Nature?). Hayley. The biggest, yup. Smh, pregnant and kicking Mikael's butt (while almost/temporarily dead)... absolutely no logic in that. Mikael should have ended it then. He would have went down in infamy.

      WHAT?! O.O Given credit to JP. lol Nah she'd still find a way to screw it up. She recycles plots to much to have anything successful again. But sure. Give her a teen romance/drama so it doesn't end up in other shows. Like containment, isolate and quarantine.

      My bet is off. That or he wont even mention it. Lol coming back in S5 and Josh just causally mention Davina (and Kol) vacationing or something and Marcel just floored/flabbergasted that she was alive and him be like... what you didn't get a one on one, special goodbye. :P lol nah. He probably knows but it just doesn't make sense from a view point because when Kol found out she was "back" as an Ancestor, he rushed off immediate, just to communicate with her. For Marcel to be the "Beast" he's seemed to be on the back burner this season. Maybe because it's a short season can they couldn't really dedicate too much time of just him. I thought there would be more TO v. Beast action though they quickly "fixed" that with the common issue of the Hollow. Just once I'd like for a villain to actually win, pull something off, so horrible and lasting. Dahlia getting away with Hope, and they not even remember it would have been EPIC!. That would have been something unexpected and appealing to me. We kinda got this with the Travelers and their spell (that was later siphoned away), but that wasn't as epic. :(

      Eh. I don't think the network would have cared about that. I believe that Angel and Buffy ended the same year so I don't see why this would have been a problem, besides TO was midseason and basically just "extended" from TVD. I would have like to be a fly on the wall when they dicussed whether or not to renew. Though I bet they will brand S5 as the final season with TO. Probably another short season to tie up (or more likely to create more) loose ends.

      Yeah it is. She should've stayed dead. Hearing talk now that Marcel/Beast can compel originals now. Smh. More trash. Originals can't compel other originals and Lucien using Esther's spell, with the added vemon, wouldn't have changed that. More bs to retcon something. Hopefully it's fake, otherwise the infamous retcon season strikes again. I feel like Rebeka is too much fan favorite for that. They are the core "always and forever", that is why they've killed off Finn and Kol twice now.

      Dahlia motives were more clear and the Hollow's motives... she wanted to be immortal (protected from death or whatever) and retain her magic and break the slumber requirement of her spell. Other than that, not really sure what she wanted to do with all that magic. The Hollow... she's just hungry for more power. Beyond that... nothing really else. Okay well yes they are similar, but... still, the Hollow, unimpressed.

      I've heard similar things. Hopefully though this will pick the Grimm, TB fans and with the other supernatural dramas that have ended, this will be a focal point. Rare chance that another network could pick it up. With TO likely ending, the CW will need a supernatural replacement (well they have Supernatural, but seriously they should have ended that seasons ago). Yup. staying positive and pray for a successful show with a renewal.

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    • The writers create the same stories and plot lines over and over again. It gets to a point where it becomes so predictable. I'm almost 100% sure that's how it will play out between Marcel, Sofya, and Bex. Mystic Falls would be a Wasteland by now if not for Bonnie. MFG never would have made it this far without the resident witch.

      I think JP did know better, but she just didn't care. She lives through Caroline. So what's better than her having babies? It makes sense considering how much JP loves these baby storylines. She gets the empowering vampire Caroline, and the mother figure all in one. This season definitely felt like 'The Daycare Diaries'. With the time jump next, season will probably be 'The Secret Life of an American Teen Witch'. We'll follow the story of Hope Mikaelson, who is accompanied by find her siphon wonder twin companions, Lizzie and Jossie. I can only hope they fly Grandma Mary out to kick some ass, and take some names in the process.

      I hate when shows do stuff like that. Why not either add the scene in or just address it in a quick convo, it only takes a few seconds to say whether she's dead or not. Klaus' magic vasectomy if I had to take one scene that I hated the most out of every season of TVD/TO, Hayley vs Mikael is definitely in high consideration. Makes no sense that a pregnant werewolf can defeat an original vampire/warrior of 1000 years. We know for a fact that even a baby vampire can take out a human form werewolf (Caroline vs Mason).

      JP knows how to bring in the shippers and how to bait them. Even if the show is trash, she'll still be able to get them watching for whatever ship. I've always given her credit for that. It takes a special kind of trash writing to pull it off, and she's great at it.

      I could totally see that happening. Sounds very much like Josh. Nothing makes sense for any point these days, so I guess we're just going to have to see how this plays out in the finale, assuming she appears. Now it just seems that turning Marcel into the Beast was even more pointless bc he hasn't done much with that power. I wish the writers could understand that. They can keep the protagonist alive while at the same time allowing the antagonists to win. It doesn't always have to be someone dies at the end. It isn't always either-or.

      JP had plans for an entire spin off if S5 didn't happen, so I know a revamp is pretty much in our future. Caroline, the siphon sisters, Ric, Roman, teenage Hope. None of these characters do we actually need or want tho. My mind is gonna explode from confusion if we get a 6th season. I just don't see it possible. I always said S5 was unlikely but never impossible. I feel like S6 is impossible.

      They're clearly making this up as they go along. It was established a long time ago that OVs can't be compelled. The season of retcons. S4 will go down as the most retcon filled season ever. This is atrocious. But I just feel like Klaus and Elijah have always been safer than Bex. This is the Hayley show, so I doubt they care much about Always and Forever but they would probably keep her alive in fear of the backlash that would ensue if they killed her

      The Hollow is stale. Plain and simple. All this hype about her being the baddest villain. I knew it was bs. She's not scary. She's not threatening. She's not entertaining. She's just there.

      I hope so too. Some people are even looking at it as Grimm's replacement. If that means as many seasons as Grimm, then no complaints here. Grimm is done. TVD is done. TO will be done this week. SPN is done. TW looks like late summer at the earliest. Right now is literally the best time to air a new supernatural show since all the other ones are done.

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    • Yeah I hate that. Usually the longer the show goes, the more recycled plots get reused, however, this has been a common occurrence since season one with JP. LOL. Self proclaimed "Town Witch" but totally true, none-the-less. They should put up a freaking status to the Bennett Witches. Mystic Falls have been saved by more Bennetts than they care to acknowledge.

      Julie should know that there is nothing worse than a "pregnant" vampire. That's just absurd. Vampires by definition are "dead". The Undead, reanimated corpses, incapable of life. Jumping ahead. That tweet is also absurd. Dead is dead. Their biology, they are dead. Hybrids are "dead"... they literally have to die and are essentially vampires with extra perks. Baby storylines are never good. They are troublesome and generally unappealing and the plot suffers. Oh the horror. Not like Lizzie and Josie could do anything anyways without something to siphon. Unless they are gonna age them up enough to turn them into Heretics too. smh. All of it is crap. At least with the aging up, we won't have to see much or any of the school for the gifted ripoff.

      I know they can't address everything, but somethings they should know that will trigger questions and such. Or they should release that info deleted scenes or director commentary or something a little more official (or permanent) then twitter. Smh. Like I said above, "Dead is Dead". Being an original means nothing. I thought they mentioned Nature, but even a spell (which could be broken) is a better answer than biology. What bs are they going to pull if/when Beasts (an original) can compel other originals. I just can't deal with the crap of this season. I would have figured, less bs and retcon, but dang did they pack in a 22 ep season's worth into 13. Lol yup, by that comparison alone, it makes it absurd but they can't shame their "Hayley".

      Credit for trash writing and horrible ship. Yeah can't argue with that. That is about the only credit I can give her. The ONLY exception is Bonnie surviving the finale and the witches coming together to help her. I guess JP can have miracles too. (I mean that scene still gets to me so, that is the only time I'll her credit for writing) It was decent and for all of the injustice and crap she got handed, it was a pretty good turn around.

      There's now talk that Hope is going to be the Davina replacement for Josh. Wondering how that is gonna turn out, because that is so something JP would do to give Josh "purpose". Yeah Marcel has been all talk this season and less bite. That or his kills, were lame, no real fights, other then the Hollow kicking his butt. It would make for a more dynamic writing. All the possibilities that could have came from that. Though ideas like that probably never cross their minds. Can't have the bad guys winning at all, just small victories here and there then ultimate defeat. Tbh, Idk the difference anymore, it all seems to blend together now unless the third spinoff is going to be a "prequel" to season 5. They better think that one through (not that I see it happening) but the retcons from that alone will be horrible. I feel like S6 is impossible. A third spinoff, I feel is impossible. I don't they would have the fan backing for that with Hope alone.

      JP got backlash when they killed Kol, then again.. with Kaleb. I'd hope she would leave well enough alone. I feel like out of everyone, they can't kill off anymore originals permanently, unless it's the series finale. I will say the Hollow is better than the Siren Sisters. Other than that, not impressed.

      With all the supernatural shows going out. They should capitalize on something new and fresh. Die hard supernatural fan, I'd hope, will latch on to this and make it a staple show for a couple seasons (maybe as long as Grimm). If not, another network should pick it up, rare, but a possibility.

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    • JP has very few ideas, so it comes as no surprise that they're already recycling plot lines so early in the show. Always wondered why that specific bloodline of witches were so powerful

      That explanation given as to why Klaus could procreate was such bs. It's irrelevant. How does the method in which Klaus became a vampire determine his ability to procreate? Epic ass pull. Not only is Hope OP, she shouldn't even exist. It's not that I hate the Wonder Twins, but I see no use for two more teenage girls who couldn't be of much use considering they don't have a witch to train them, and they only have magic when they siphon. No school is definitely a plus tho.

      My problem with the deleted scene is that I feel like a lot of them didn't even have to be deleted. There's a couple that were deleted that I wish hadn't been, and could have made it to the show had they instead cut out the unimportant shipper crap or filler dialogue. Lol, with Vincent's help (as if that makes it any better), Marcel was able to compel him. This was probably something they thought up at the last minute while writing the finale. One would think that less episodes would mean less retcons and less fillers, clearly, one was wrong. I'd be surprised if they even remembered that fight between Caroline and Mason. That was under KWs watch

      LOL gotta give credit where it's due. JP is the queen of trash writing and toxic ships. No one will ever take that crown. But I must admit, every now and then, she will surprise us with something good (Kai, Tyler calling Damon on his bs, Bonnie surviving) but it's very infrequent.

      Haha. Yeah, that seems to be Shae's wish for Josh and Hope. I don't get it. Why would Josh hang out with Hope? You don't just replace your best friend. But I could see it happening. And if that's the case, send Josh off. He's not even from NOLA. He has no reason to stay with Marcel and Davina gone. I just hope they have more planned for Marcel next season than as Bex's love interest. I also wish they could understand that there doesn't have to be a new villain every season. Would have made much more sense for them to keep Lucien alive. Let the villain win, let him carry on. It doesn't have to always be this juvenile form of storytelling where the good guys always win. Agreed. No way in hell we're getting an S6 or spin off.

      Kol was awesome on TVD. He never should have been killed off. Backlash should have been expected. He was an Original. The only acceptable time to kill off an Original at this point is in the finale. Otherwise it's just a show about one less Original that people won't wanna watch. Everything is better than the Sirens, more specifically Sybil.

      With this being a supernatural summer show, I'll be able to dedicated pretty much all my time here. It works out perfectly. I know there is a hole in the supernatural hearts of many, hopefully MTX can fill it

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    • (Plot) lol, but yeah... If Kat wasn't just finished with TVD, I'd want a Bennett Witch Spinoff. XD I'm happy for Kat though. She's drop an amazing album. She starred in a movie and now has a new role in a upcoming Netflix show. Hopefully more big things from her.

      Imo, Hope and the Twins are irrelevant and all three was a huge mistake that completely changed things. Children just complicate the plot. They can't physically harm them or kill them (lets face it they aren't the Walking Dead where they can kill off children). They are just a nuisance that plot has to be tailored specifically for. I think it's just funny that they are even going to have a "romance" for her. Smh.

      I was made aware of one with Bonnie that was related to Enzo, that basically determined that he found peace. O.o ... Like you'd think that one minute scene would have made the cut. Like it's something that should have been explained, but no. I mean, what was stopping them for producing an extended series finale? Like let them fill in all the, well large/obvious missing details. Oh they can't cut the shipper crap. Then what will they do without that. Hmm maybe have a better plot, but I guess the world will never know. Vincent using a spell (again the whole because of magic) makes better sense than just being able to compel an Original. That would have been a blatant retcon. Smh Originals can't compel each other and Lucien use the same spell, with the added venom.

      This is true. She's batting a 1000 for the crap title, but yea few good ones that I can't complain about. Well I mean I can on the small details but it's as good as it's gonna get at this point. XP

      I don't even see the point of Hope returning to NO, let alone her and Josh being BFFs. Like her family is separated now, though I'm sure Aunt Freya, studying the Hollow's magic for 5-10 years will come up with some explanation to reunite them all. Even so, why go back to NO? Lol Who is running the city now Josh? Lol Nah, probably Vincent, trying to keep the peace or something. Maybe, then again, it's the season of Hope.

      It makes no sense to kill off the very people the show is about. What is the point of calling it the Originals without the Originals. Smh. There should be backlash from them all dying. So much justice when Arcadius killed Sybil, though in the end, he too was a let down as a villain.

      That's cool :) I can't wait just a month away now.

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    • I'd watch a Bennett witch spin off, so long as it has a new staff of writers. Kat seems to be one of the few cast members doing well outside of TVD. Although, the reviews for that movie haven't been too good, through no fault of her own tho.

      Kids have no place in a supernatural show. However, no matter how many times we say this, JP ain't gonna care. She loves kids. Lol, TWD don't give af. Love that show for it. They do what they want, and they show what they want. Kids are on the chopping block too. Everyone's fair game. It's absurd. The first piece of concrete info we get on next season is a LI for the baby turned teen.

      Yeah. I saw that deleted scene earlier. Like I said, bc they're incompetent, they like to delete scenes that shouldn't be deleted. Enzo's fate def should've been addressed. There was plenty of Steroline bs in the finale, they should've deleted that. Bc of magic is only slightly better than Marcel doing it on his own. I don't condone any of it since it's all plot convenience bs tho.

      I've learned to expect the worst from JP, and TO writers in general. So when I get the worst, I'm not disappointed, and when I get something slightly better, it's a good surprise. It's the only way my head doesn't explode from watching these horrific shows.

      I don't either. There's no reason for Hope to go to NOLA. Freya can just visit her at the school. I'm sure within the first two eps, there will be a half ass solution to their Hollow problem. Just like the beginning of S4. Vincent running NOLA on his own has me a little intrigued bc Im wondering how the witch community responded to this after a decade. They were still sour about Marcel being in control even for those 5 years of peace. So, how will it be with just Vincent?

      I'd be cool if they killed off the entire Original family in the finale. However, it would have a greater impact if the sireline was still connected, thus killing all vamps. That's the one contribution that prevents Cade from being a epic fail. He rid the world of Sybil. That was a blessing that I had been waiting on.

      One month seems like nothing at this point. Can't believe we're here. Looking back on it, I'm thankful that they pushed this to summer instead of midseason. No way I would've had the time to do MTX and RD. And you have TVD too. That would've been extremely inconvenient.

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    • I'd definitely watch that spinoff. Though that will never happen. Idk if I'd watch the new movie. "Biopic" isn't really something that interest me, even though KG is in the movie.

      They are ruthless and I love it. Agree. Children in supernatural shows/movies only complicate things. Makes me miss it. I've still not gotten caught up with that or the prequel show. Yeah you know it's never going to be a good start to something when the first piece of info is about a new LI. Like we need some teenage romance. I mean they are literally making it pointless. Like what is a new turned ~15-18 vampire and a witch going to contribute to plot. Nothing that will make sense, imo.

      I feel like they should have had an extended finale, like make it an 1.5hour long so that they could have explored more of the open topic. You know so they could have answered all the large plots they left open. It's not an outright retcon. Though their "it's magic" excuse was still bs. I don't get why they even had to do that. They couold have just daggered them all and that would have served the same purpose imo.

      Lol it's kind of a sad out look but it's justified at this point. I guess at this point, the more horrible spoilers will make S5 even more unbearable. I don't really expect anything good for this upcoming season.

      Most likely. I highly doubt they will bring back the Hollow as a villain. She's not as interesting as Katherine was and rehashing the same villain, isn't something that TO in known for. Plot yet, but they'll probably toss her in some new dimension or a dark object or something and be down with it to reunite the family (then Rebekah and Kol and will go on their own ways.) I'd rather like to think at this point, the Hollow's followers had rid the city of vampires, though I doubt that. Marcel, King of the city, leaving it all behind is strange. Without him, I imagine Vincent and the witches are in control of the city. Well that's my thoughts anyways.

      I'd be cool with it. At this point I'd even like Klaus' sireline to be relinked, not sure if that is even possible at this point, but yeah, I'd like to see the species wiped out, though I don't see that happening. The end of the Mikaelsons would be a great way to end the show though. It would be bittersweet, Abby would die, (if it was possible to relink them all, seems impossible though) leaving Bonnie really without a mother, though who knows. That was the only think good about Arcadius. He still sucked though. They should have just had him incinerate a few characters on the spot (besides Sybil and Seline). He had the power to do so. If he wanted Damon/Stefan so bad, they he should have just done it and be down with it.

      The days seem to be flying by now. So can't wait at this point. Yeah I guess. TO is now finished so nothing new to update concurrently, just the old stuff lol.

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    • A Bennett spin off would require the writers to first realize that the witches are more than plot devices. Tupac was before my time, so I never planned on seeing it.

      I'm caught up on TWD. Negan is so badass. However, I'm like a whole season behind on FTWD. It lost my interests. Not as good as the mother show. It's a shame that Roman is going to be nothing more than a LI. They're literally introducing him for this sole purpose. I'm not completely against teens, but they gotta pull their own weight. They gotta contribute to the plot, Davina is a great example of this. Didnt like her but she had purpose

      S8 was very rushed, so I agree, an extended finale would've been appreciated. TVD's run for 8 years, I'm surprised JP couldn't pull that off. Daggering would've certainly been easier and much more convenient but I guess that's exactly why they didn't do it. It makes too much sense, and we just can't have that. Sense making is a no no.

      It works for me, so I'm gonna stick to it. Some might call it being pessimistic, but they said the same thing about my attitude towards S4, and look who was right. I expected the worst, and that's pretty much what we got. S4 was my least favorite.

      There's honestly no need to bring the Hollow back. They'll just find a way to trap her in something. No one wants to see her again anyways. Bringing back Kat in S8 was a terrible idea lol. They couldn't pull it off. She was an epic fail. I figured the Hollow's followers just went back to doing whatever they were doing before her return. There's a deleted scene between Marcel and Vincent from the finale apparently. Allegedly, Marcel admits that he's as bad as Klaus, and that NOLA would be better off without him or something like that. I'd like to see the witches in control of the city for once. I'd rather see the wolves in control but we know that roads leads straight to dumbass Avenue, and then to Mary Sue Boulevard.

      Not entirely sure if that's possible either, but if it is, I wouldn't mind if the sireline was relinked. Or the witches and the wolves could just wipe out whatever is left of Klaus' sireline since that's all that would be left. Something I realize back in S3 of TO is that the wolves could have been wiped out the vamps. They established that werewolves have venom in the gums even while in human form, meaning the wolves could extract their own venom and use it in weapons. Something Sam and I talked about not too long ago is that they could have put the venom in the town's water or food supply. Humans would ingest the venom, they'd go unaffected, but the vampires that would later feed on them would die off. Plot convenience is literally the only thing keeping the vampire species from going extinct. I forgot all about Abby. She's such a non-factor lot of the time. No arguments here, Cade definitely sucked. If he had put Damon down, that would have made my day too but he has plot armor.

      Time really is going by faster now. I guess because I'm not thinking about the show as much.

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    • We wouldn't get that. Very few shows even consider such things with witch characters. Tupac was before my time as well and not much on his genera of music. I entertained the though because of Kat Graham, though I may just read a review or something.

      I'll eventually get caught up with it, probably not anytime soon unless there is a scheduled marathon or something. Negan sounds awesome. I've heard really good things about him as a villain. Typically spinoff shows are never as good as the parents, in most incarnations, but I think that is generally the trend. Most people don't like change and it may be a good show, but it's not the original. I.e. you get used to certain Characters or plot actions that may or may not be featured. I greatly enjoyed Buffy and Angel, but imo, Angel was never as good as Buffy, especially in the later seasons. Some can say the same about TVD/TO. With Roman they will eventually expand info about him hopefully, but to introduce him as a potential LI, that's just annoying. It's like when they introduce characters based on race or sexual orientation. Like that is what solely makes them a character. What is he beyond this LI. smh. Yeah I agree with that. They have to contribute and push the story forward.

      Even a two part finale would have been good. Cut out the bs from the other episodes and the last two would feel like an extended finale. Many shows concentrate their finale two episodes to finish out the show. It' makes sense that way. Here it was rushed and a lot didn't make sense. I wonder if it even occurred to JP. I mean she got the Forever Yours thing and tbh that was a waste. They should have used that time for the actually show. Seems like daggering would've been better, though it's a little interesting to see them interact without each other, however brief that will be before they get a magical fix.

      S4 was practically a waste. In hindsight the Hollow could have possessed Hope in 4x03. Smh Poor plot, Hayley centric and got out it scott free. It's not being pessimistic when that the reality of the show. S4 was horrible with no true plot, it literally felt like filler episodes with another lame ending. Even the ritual to contain the Hollow was lacking luster compared to Vincent's first attempt. After an expected disappointing S4, I don't want to see her back again. Lol well they were from the Nine Covens of New Orleans, so who knows what they did. They probably continued to fight the vampires, well the ones that survived, otherwise Vincent may have brokered peace, or maybe they got back into the Ancestors favor... I guess we'll have to wait.

      "Allegedly"... well I guess it makes sense considering that he did end up leaving. I'd like the witches to rule again. Werewolves would be better than vampires, and who knows maybe without the vampires, they might regain a few brain cells. Though with JP writing, she'll likely completely forget about them. Then again, we may not even be back in NO.

      "It's Magic" lol... nah seems impossible. I'd like to see a team up of werewolves and witches to take down the remaining vampires. Wouldn't been too difficult. That is sound thinking... That would be a quick way to eliminate vampires from NO. Plot convenience can be used for a lot of things. Just like Esther's first attempt to turn her children back to Human. Bonnie and Abby would have been much more safe with her and Finn, ... you know... Behind the FREAKING boundary spell! Smh. But no Abby had to died and break Esther's like. Arcadius should have incinerated Damon and then Stefan would still give up his life to destroy katherine/hell.Two birds with one hellfire. lol.

      Just a couple more weeks :) So excited.

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    • From what I heard, Kat did good, it's just that the characters and stories were inaccurately written.

      Negan's charismatic and unpredictable. Plus the fact that Jeffrey Dean Morgan is such an amazing actor, it just brings the whole character together. For me, it's not really about change or being used to certain characters, it's just that I find it to be less entertaining than The Walking Dead itself. I also don't like the characters as much. At this moment, TO is better than TVD, but at no point was TO ever greater than the earlier seasons of TVD. I'm not so hopeful about Roman. I think if if he was going to be more, then him being Hope's LI wouldn't have been the first piece of info we learned. I think he's going to be another Keelin. The sexual orientation thing also applies to Keelin. 'Bisexual' werewolf, why was that needed in her character description

      It was rushed because they're idiots and they decided to spend the episode before the finale on a boring wedding that most people couldn't care less about. The finale may not have felt as rushed if they spent two episodes on it, instead of one. Feels like these things are just common sense but the writers make it seem so difficult. I do wonder how that's going to play out. I want Klaus to return back to his monstrous ways, TVD Klaus. Elijah too. I'm not even going to say I want Kol too cuz I know he won't.

      Exactly. They wasted a whole season on the Hollow being resurrected just so that she can jump in the Hope when she could have done that from the beginning. I really hope they give a Twitter answer to this, just so I can have a good laugh. Believe it or not, some people don't even see how bad the show has become, some of them actually liked S4. I said the same thing during the finale. It was just underwhelming. I expected the spell to be a little more flashy. LOL, I guess I felt like Caroline after she first became a vampire, and Bonnie made her daylight ring but there was no visual effect to the spell being cast on the ring. Without Marcel, and with the ancestors reconnected, the vamps don't really stand a chance. The only way I logically see the vamps surviving in Nola is if Vincent made peace with them.

      Yep. Allegedly. I don't think the scene can be found online but I guess it was said on Twitter that the deleted scene between Vincent and Marcel consisted of Marcel admitting that he was just as bad. I haven't seen it, so that's what makes it alleged. JP never cared about the wolves, so I don't see much being done with them. For the wolves to become a threat again, either KW needs to get on board or they need new writers.

      With Klaus' line as the only vampires left in that scenario, they'd certainly be the minority. Werewolves and witches team up. Witches would create moonlight rings. Werewolves extract their own venom to poison the humans food and water supply. So the vamps that aren't taken out by the wolves and witches directly, will be by the venom. Common Sense would say get behind the magic barrier, but as we know that doesn't seem to exist much in the TVDverse. That actually would've made the season a lot more interesting. Still annoyed that Damon got a happy ending, whilst Stefan got death. They both should've died.

      Also, as predicted by the Psychic God, Mary Andrews is returning for S2. They just began filming last week, so that means she's likely in 2x01

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    • Well good for her. I hope she has a successful career post TVD.

      Jeffery Dean Morgan is an amazing actor. From what little I know of his work and from TWD, it was a great choice! Good career move too because TWD is a hit show with a massive following. I'm open to spinoff shows but, for me, they rarely have the same vibe to them, not that they should be the same show, but it should still apart of the parent show, whether it's the actors, the plots, etc.. Yeah TO is way better (relative terms) then the last bit of TVD, but not the first few seasons. It was gold. Me either. Roman will probably just be a rehash of TVD character or something. I'd like for him to not be a recurring character, something that's established offscreen then Klaus comes in and kills him. Lol that'd be amazing, don't see that happening though. Yeah I forgot about that. She was introduced specifically as that, just like Eddie being Josh's LI. Look where it got him... like two 5 sec scenes. Great. Like that is everything that defines a character. -.-

      Haha. They should have had it last like 5 minutes or soemthing, or mention it in passing. Would have made a better call on budget lol. I still don't even consider it a "real" wedding or marriage. That's asking for a lot, considering everything. I doubt they will do it, or make it last longer than an episode if they do go that route.

      Lol Right. No sense what so ever. Like I question the purpose of this season. Oh I know, Anon and user alike. I see comments like it was the best season and I must have been watching a different show, or I needed to be drunk to watch it. Grant there were good moments, but those were far and few between. Yeah I was expecting some a bit more flashy. Considering her Mother's success, and Vincent's failed attempted, it just seemed like it was two easy (plot). That's a good comparison. I was like. That's it... ? Who needs faux-peace. Eliminate the vampires and true peace can be achieved.

      Lol it it exists, it will eventually make it's way on to the internet. Everything else does. Or it will be released with the other deleted scenes. Time will tell. I can see it being about of their little graveyard scene, so doesn't seem to farfetched, compared to other things. XD At this point, for writing, the wolves are practically non-existent. I don't even foresee the crescents in s5.

      Lol all the possibilities with magic. Big enough coven of witches, they could work a spell to lure vampires and then torch them all. I mean look at what Finn did with the Abattoir and the Wolves and Vamps. Image a coven, or a city of witches. Logically, they would be out gunned and out numbered. Shoot yeah. Bonnie even stated that Esther was channeling her, that she couldn't stop her. My butt would have been right there with Uber-Witch Esther, shouting in the background "Let's Do This!" But alas, plot must be feed ridiculous stories to be satisfied. I get they wanted the series to end on a Happy note and everyone to be satisfied, but that is a rare reality and expectation would have been that Stefan and Damon, monstrous, murderous vampires that found peace. Where is the logic in that. But it is what it is at this point. Senseless and all.

      I didn't doubt you. Can't say that is good new for Fred, though there is Hope. Right now. Full on prediction. Alive or Deceased. What do you call? A much harder test!? lol O.o

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    • It's like he was born for the role of Negan. It looks like it comes so naturally to him. If a zombie apocalypse were to happen right now, I feel like that's exactly how he would be, a ruthless lunatic. I've watched very few spin offs, so I don't really have much of a general feeling on them. It just varies, for instance I like the flash more than I do Arrow. Some times the spin off is better. There's a lot of speculation that Roman will just be another Damon. I'm already calling Rope as the new DE. I'm sure of it. The new ship that JP gets to build from scratch and push harder than any other. Her new favorite ship. As awesome as him being killed off he, I highly doubt it. It's hilarious that they even made announcements and posted articles about Eddie, as if he was actually going to factor into the season. Teen Wolf's Danny making his way to NOLA, only to be on screen for like 5 secs.

      That also could have worked. It makes no sense that they wasted an entire episode on a wedding, while knowing there was still a bunch of crap they had to address. I doubt it will happen as well, which is why I'm not even wasting my time hoping for them to become monsters again. It's just something in the back of my mind that I would like to see.

      If there was ever a filler season, this would be it. I feel as if it was completely unnecessary. When people say S4 was the best season, I go into shock almost as quickly as I do when someone says S8 of TVD was the best season. Blasphemy!! I guess I was hoping for something a little more closer to that scene when Vincent turned Lucien into an upgraded Original (badass background music, loud chanting, explosive effects, etc). I agree with eliminating the vamps. All they ever seem to bring is chaos but I doubt it'll go down that way.

      Yeah. Assuming it's true, it'll eventually end up on YouTube. Sounds like a humbling moment for Marcel if it's true. I hope you're right about the Crescents in S5. They had very little involvement in S4, so that's one of the upsides to this season.

      Luring vampires and then torching them just reminded me of that scene from the finale with Klaus, Elijah, and Sofya. That was actually badass. I'd definitely like to see that again. It was incredibly stupid looking back on it. You know that the originals are going to come to stop the spell. Why would you not go some place safe? Screw that ending on a good note bs. Tyler dies, and I will forever be pissed at how and why that was done. The needlessness of it. JP loves Damon, and she has no idea what it means to be an impartial writer so course she had Damon live while Stefan died.

      I don't think this really speaks much in terms of Fred's condition. He was shot, so if he does survive, he's going to be in the hospital for a while, meaning someone has to look after Archie. I predict Fred will live.

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    • I like it when actors really give a good performance and really commit to a role. (not like the obsessed that take it too far and have it infringe upon their personal lives.) Sometimes I forget that most of the DC shows are technically considered a "spinoff", 98% of the time it doesn't matter what's going on in those shows, it rarely effects them... well Flash screwing up the timeline (or even LoT) but that's not a visible change throughout the others Lol. Yeah they can be better. Others are not. I know some get canceled after their first season i.e. Once Upon a Time in Wonderland or whatever that spinoff was called. lol Given the slides that I read through the other day, I can see that happening. Still idk why they are going with a 15-16 year old, newly turned vampire. I mean that's just annoying. Smh I hope that's not true (doubtful that isn't). Hope needs to focus on not dying everytime she casts a spell and look at what's happened with her family and "vampires" in general. Smh like she needs a "romance" at 15-16. In one of the slides, supposedly "Mikael" is torturing him for a location of his brother by threatening his sister... they tend to be wrong but that's seriously misleading as Roman is a "newly turned" vampire and Mikael is dead. Lol all of it is absurd. Considering Danny was shoved in the background and only came out, no pun intended, to suit the plot and then to mysteriously disappear from the screen with no explanation... I think fans figured he'd have a bit more screen time though his appearance on TO is rather similar to TW. Didn't even make any sense to the plot and only had him there for "filler" or to "represent" LGBQ.

      It's like the most "dangerous" foe they've faced has literally taken over Hell and is walking about in Mystic Falls, but wait lets go ahead and continue this wedding, drop our guard and expose ourselves to whatever plan she's laid out... GREAT thinking on their part. Smh Like that's believable. I think a lot of fans want to see them return to their respective glories, attitudes and personalities, etc. I mean we're still waiting for a full Klaus/Wolf transformation... so I highly doubt we will get that since we're getting (smh, can't believe it's come to this) "Rope". It's basically a fluff show at this point with the occasional blood and death and "oops I was bad again, forgive me".

      They've completely blew the mythology as far as I've concerned with S8 and TO S4. And yes, "Blasphemy" lol. I don't understand some peoples perspective sometimes, but to each their own I guess. Yeah I guess. Or maybe something a little more violent, but I guess they can't hurt the miracle child. They never will. At least they will pull some unsired crap even if they kill off Rebekah, Klaus' line will be left though I'd like there to be some kinda consequence to breaking that link... i.e. without that link, they can no longer sire new vampires. That'd be an interesting turn of events. Doubtful, but that would interesting, if nothing else comes from it.

      Humbling, indeed. Can't wait for the fan reaction for that to come about. The way some users despise or glorify certain character to the detriment of other... it can be hilarious. If they make their move to Mystic Falls and that is where S5 will be centered then I don't see them at all. They will probably split time between MF and NO with Freya trying to find an alternative to their situation... but idk. The whole upcoming season just sounds ridiculously lame.

      I'm still upset about that ending scene it's complete bs. A congregation of witches, held behind a barrier (that they could have broken, regardless of having the Hollow's power, which doesn't make sense that they "lost" because She/Hope was asleep and shackled.)... like come on. They should have been able to put up a fight.. heck one witch with enough power can take out the originals. Chalk that up to plot convenience too. They had to eliminate them just like Dominic had to (selectively) eliminate a room full of vampires. Lol Right! They should have protected the house or something, like she prepared for the spell, but she didn't prepare an protections because after Finn started to desiccate because of the link, she had to have known they were coming. She could have done something and Abby and Bonnie should have fortified the house or stuck with Esther. I mean, looking back, it could have been handled better. Good note as in their preservative not the fans. They all found peaces and looked over their loved ones. Plot closure if you will. But yea totally agree, fans will be forever pissed over JP with Tyler's death. And Stefan's. And Enzo... could have been just as easily been Bonnie or any number of character. I mean I would be right their with you if it had been Bonnie. Don't get me wrong. I'm pissed that Tyler is dead because they could have handled that plot way differently and got the same result. She has that "my story, my way" mentality.

      I'd figure she'd be back at least to visit him in the hospital. For how long depends on whether he lived or not. I'm betting he lives, she spends time reconnecting and they want to try living together again. I don't think she'll be anything major though. Recurring, maybe.

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    • I thought i was only one that forgot they were spin offs. I didn't even remember that the Flash and LOT were spin offs until this conversation right here. They've done a great job at establishing themselves as their own show. Someone just needs to take Barry's powers. That guy's out of control with screwing up the timeline. Lol, I didn't even know there was a spin-off to Once Upon a Time. Must've been a flop. Roman's age and status is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. Bad thing bc it's like what's the point of a newly turn teen vamp? Good thing bc age wont be a factor. There wont be any weird undertone of pedophile vibes to Rope. As if Hope has to worry about dying from spell casting. She's Tribrid Jesus. Overexertion of magic is no concern of hers. Haven't seen the sides, but that sounds of ridiculous. That's what annoys me with Danny is that I didn't care about him up until that point that he revealed he knew what was going on in town. I wanted to know more, but of course that's when he disappeared. That one scene of him in TO was completely unnecessary.

      That wedding was crazy forced. No one in their right mind would have gone with that wedding while knowing that Katherine was free. She could have blown the whole wedding up if she wanted to. I gave up on seeing Klaus' wolf transformation a long time ago. They're more interested in showing Hayley's. I also gave up on the idea that we'll ever get the TVD Mikaelsons back, but I still think about it a lot. It's hard not to when they were so badass once upon a time.

      Everyone knew that S8 was TVDs last season, and everyone assumed S4 was TOs last season. They clearly treated both these seasons like they were the last, and just didnt give a damn both mythology and plot. Now that they've aged Hope up, they could kill her. She certainly wouldn't be the first teen to die, but even then it's super unlikely. I like that scenario in which they can't sire vamps but like you said doubtful. Anything interesting will get passed up. I've always wondered what would happen if Marcel tried to turn vampires. Would it be like a new breed of vamps? That would be cool.

      Absolutely. That's what I can't wait for. Even though I don't recall Marcel ever saying he was better than the Mikaelsons, other users swear that he says it and acts that way. This'll shut a lot of that down. I'd rather the season take place elsewhere. I'm sick of MF, and the Mikaelsons have no reason to go to NOLA. Go somewhere else, like Chicago. Agreed on that. There's nothing that interest me about S5 so far. I'm not looking forward to it

      Lmao. That was a lot of witches. Together, I'm sure they could've broken free. But not one even tried. They just stood there frightened. And what was up with that scene with Dominic? Why did he spare Josh? If one witch can take out a room full of vampires (hwo did he killed them exactly?), then a group of witches should be able to break one barrier. Looking back, a lot of things could've been handled better but that's just the way TVD/TO is. Gotta watch for plotholes at all times otherwise you might just fall into one. I liked that they at least showed that he found peace, but he never should've been dead in the first place. Wouldn't be as bad if his death had actually served a purpose. Tyler was literally killed off for faux Delena angst. Enzo's death to follow up Tyler's death left me distraught. Two favs taken out in the same pissy season.

      Agreed. Not sure how long Mary will be around but I definitely see her as a recurring character this season, whether Fred lives or dies.

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    • Lol right. They can easily be their own shows, but I like the crossovers that they have from time to time. Yeah Barry has screwed up pretty bad, though I think after this past season, he's learned his lesson. Yeah it only had a single season not even sure if it was a full or short one. Lol like with Stefan or Damon... right, but still annoying. I mean what good will he serve other than to be a love interest. At that point, and I'm sad t say, thst Caroline could take him down. Right... if anything it should be exacerbated due to her lineage, but they will turn her into a saint and ignore all the previous crap. Danny coukd have been useful in the benefactor arc because of his computer skills but nope. I still dont even know why the got rid of his charactwr. Must have had something said behind the scenes or something. Mason is a pale copie if Danny. That scene wasn't necessary at all, just filler crap for " representation", if you can even call it that anymore.

      Well it got the shippers attention, as stupid as it was. I still dont even claim it as real. Like they forced the crap out of it and it was utterly unnecessary. The whole wedding would have been better. Lol Bonnie and the girls would have been safe inside... because there was literally no one else inside when it went off, like what was the point. Smh. Poor thought. I reckon the only time we will see it is either right before he dies or when the series ends, and I'm not putting much stock in either one of those scenarios.

      There is a great parallel in the handling of both mythology and plot, going into it like the last season. They blew it out the water on both of those accounts. Killing off Hope will be as rare as wolf Klaus. I just wont happen. Like that actually want something interesting. XD I hope its address, though idk if they will directly state it. I mean if Roman is turn from someone from Klaus' broken line, then that would be a confirmation, but I mean we still dont have a definitive answer on who turned Josh... Marcel or just some random lackey. You'd think, then again it would probably be some watered down version like regular vampires from the original lines. I doubt they will elaborate on that.

      Sure. Then they will pull deleted scenes dont count arguement. Smh. I hate that. The great majority of those scenes dont contradict the story and are only deleted for time constraints. But whatever, it can still be thrown in their faces to make them sweat lol. I'd like a change of location. Though I doubt they could afford for too many location shots. They will probably stay in MF for a bit then be back in NOLA. At this point I'm not even interested in the magic... I can't see Hope doing much, let alone being taught much by two incompetent "teachers" lol. We will see.

      Yeah. Poor writing, which made the plot just absurd. Consensus was fatal pain infliction. Also similar visual effects so seems plausible I guess. They can't let their token representation die... smh doesnt make sense. Dominic should have just killed the lot of them, so it didnt make sense to spare Josh but whatever. Yeah peace would have been more meaningful if it served a purpose. Tyler's death just pointless and he should have healed. I mean werewolves do heal so it makes no sense what so ever. Between all the crap and then Tyler's and then his, the season was like a -10 out of 1000. Overall could have stopped after 7. Maybe like 6 decend scenes out of the lot for me.

      Longer if he dies, but will probably be shoved in the background if he lives. Throw in a couple hospital scenes anf maybe an arguement and then him leaving the Hospital.... all predictable imo, but we will see.

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    • The Crossovers are always great. Its pure epicness when they all get together. I would hope he learned his lesson, especially after having to spend some time in that prison. S3 was a bit of a mess, I'm looking forward to S4 more. Definitely annoying. One of the things that annoying me most are characters that are only there to be a LI, the Caroline's and Camille's of the TVDverse. At this very moment, Roman has no potential as an actual character. He could be more, but he probably won't be. Hope is probably one of the nicest little girls in the world, which completely contradicts everything that was said in S2 of what she would become. It's probably just easier to write her as a Mary Sue instead of a character with struggle. I remember a lot of theories going around about Danny being involved in the benefactor storyline. It certainly could've worked. All I know is that JD said Danny graduated, which is a bs way to get rid of a character. Couldn't care less about Mason. He's clearly around only to replace Danny. I feel like that fake representation probably pisses people off more than no representation.

      I still don't understand how anyone could ship steroline. Put two boring characters together and you got a boring af ship. They were better as friends anyway. The entire relationship was forced and unnecessary. I was wondering the same thing. What was she hoping to accomplish by blowing up a nearly empty house?

      It was clear they knew this was the end, so it felt like they put very little effort into those seasons. I'm sure you're right about them killing off Hope, but I still have to hope they do. Writing her off would work too. But we've always known that Josh came from Klaus' sireline, so thats always been good enough for me. Watered down vamps sound about right. And if that's the case, then I'd rather they not address it.

      I could see that argument being brought up about it being a deleted scene. But i wont care. Still counts imo. It wouldn't even be a problem though if the writers weren't so stupid, and wasted screen time on ships and unnecessary dialogue. I happen to like quite a few of the deleted scenes on both TVD and TO. You're probably right about MF. I could see an episode or two taking place there, and then the show focusing back on NOLA. Teachers is a word we have to use loosely to describe those two. Babysitters would probably be more accurate seeing as they don't know enough about witches to teach anyone.

      It would've been so easy for them to just take a second, and add that in. Would've cut out all the guess work. It's rare that we see someone kill so many vamps that way. Plot convenience at its finest. He had no reason at all to let Josh live. I'm typically use to the senseless deaths that occur, but they don't usually happen to veteran characters. Killed Tyler off like he was so random minor character. Smh. I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot werewolves heal. Literally, the only reason I watched this season was bc it was the last. There was nothing left for me with TVD.

      Sounds right. Mary wanted to take Archie to Chicago with her before she left last time, so I definitely see that argument coming up again now that Fred's been shot.

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    • The four night-four way cross over was pretty amazing!! Idk how they are going to top that but considering they live on another Earth, that seems like a hindrance to me but I can't wait. You'd hope so, I can see him being a completely different person, really. Wonder how they will get him out, if they will have someone else replace him or what. At this point, Idk how he would actually contribute to plot. Just more pointless filler. Considering JP is taking over, I'd be there will be many things that get lost in translation. Hope's personality and sudden "control" with the occasional "I lose control" crap. Smh. I just don't think I can get behind it. That's such a bs way to get ride of someone. Gah it doesn't make any sense. I would have loved to have seen him involved with the Benefactor plot, but I guess there was something going on behind the scenes that decided otherwise. Hmm, yeah I guess when you put it that way, it would piss a lot of people off. Then again, it's a common thing in TV to treat actors/characters of race and sexuality in a negative way.

      Trust me, I don't get it either. Just doesn't seem real and all kinda pointless imo. Right? like I could understand if it was to "send a message", but dang, it's not like she could have planned for the twins to have to use the bathroom and literally no one died so what was the point. You'd think they would have made it where Katherine left a more lasting point. I.e. blow up the wedding, have a few dead wedding guess, a real show stopper, but God forbid, Katherine destroy the Steroline wedding.

      They could have written her off in so many occasions. I mean they piratically did with Rebekah watching her, but she came back. Ugh, and Rebekah left. What's up with that. Smh. I can hope, but we'd need a miracle (and considering a few fans already got that with the TVD ending I doubt we'll get another anytime soon). Yeah I guess. I mean that was the point of Davina wanting to unlink Josh and Marcel. I don't see why they could just have casually mentioned his sire. Confirm if it was Marcel and not (possibly) some random vampire in his "Army". Sometimes the little details are worth something to fans. (This not high on the list, you hopefully you see my point... they left out the sires of so many vampires.) Given the Originals and their sires (regular vampires), it would be logical that if a Beast could sire prodigies, then they would be in some form weaker. (Yes I'm pulling the logical card... though that tends to get thrown out the window at every passing chance XD).

      Lol I wish I could have been around when that was decided upon. Imo, deleted scenes are just as much "canon" as the actual scene. It's not like they can fit in everything they want and sometimes, post productions (what they consider minor, I guess) gets cut for whatever reason to fit the allotted time. Then again, I've have 2+ approved by another admin ages ago, and I approved the one concerning Enzo's status about finding peace... so there's that. Ask and you shall receive lol (in my opinion if it doesn't directly contradict the "canon" compliment XP). That's another one of my points. They cut out some of the juicy bits for romantic crap. I remember they cut a Jo/Kai scene where telekinesis and pain infliction were used and I'm like, considering other scenes, those cost more to produce because of the effects, so what was the benefit from cutting those? I'll never understand their process. Some I like others, I despise. There was one of Stefan (Cade Servant/No Humanity), Bonnie and Enzo... and that really had me steaming at Stefan (not that I cared for him, but that scene didn't help my perception.) Lol if you ask me, Alaric took a step down, was a HS teacher then a professor, then a whatever Teacher for the boarding school. Smh Yeah babysitter seems right lol.

      Yeah, imo, Dominic was a much better villain (would have been better if he would have resurrected himself on his own accord) than the Hollow, or would have been a better candidate for that role, but then he would have been related to Hayley and I cringe at the thought lol. That's true, not that I don't like it, but I hope they don't continue to do it. Freya only did it while hyped on dark objects so it should be a rare feat. Lol Josh could have been killed, not like there was anything that was stopping him from doing it. That'd make sense considering how pointless his death was. Considering their convoluted mythology now, it's a wonder if they even mention "werewolf" again.

      I can see it more if he dies. Archie would just protest and be like he has to lookout for his Father. And considering if he live, that would be plausible. Though they wont take their lead to Chicago, so if anything, they will relocate Mary for the "convenience" of plot.

      Hope you had a good 4th btw. :)

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    • The 4-way crossover was beyond awesome. It's going to take some serious brainstorming in the writers room to beat that, and a major threat, that's somehow bigger than aliens xD. I have no idea how they're going to get Barry out seeing as the prison needs a Speedster to stabilize it. And team flash aren't exactly the type to go searching for random speedsters to sacrifice. Whatever the case may be, I look forward to Wally leading the city as Kid Flash. There's not much a baby vampire can do, so most of his scenes will probably just be with Hope. I can't get behind anything Hope related. Nothing about this character make sense, her personality, her powers, even her existence, none of it makes any sense. Had to be bts stuff, nothing else explains why they couldn't get him back for the story bc they obviously had plans for Danny. Yeah, it's especially common in shows like TVD and TO. Bonnie and Josh being great examples of this.

      Why not blow up the ballroom, where everyone was actually at? Blowing up an empty house doesn't really accomplish anything. It's a weak message if that was her intent. The writing destroyed Katherine. What happened to the Katherine that turned Caroline into a vamp just to send a message? Never cared much for Katherine, but she was always a solid villain in the earlier seasons.

      I'm never going to get over Rebekah leaving the show, and the excuse of not having any more stories to write for her or Kol. How tf don't you have stories for a 1000 year old vampire, who by the way is apart of the family that the show is named after? True. They could have mentioned it, but this isn't something that's really concerned me too much, I guess bc Josh is just so irrelevant. Lol, yes, just for a minute let's use logic. Logically, Marcel should be able to sire vampires, who should be more Upgraded than the current non-original vamps we have, but less Upgraded than Marcel. That would be cool.

      I don't even think I was around when that was decided upon. I think it's just something that the TVD/TO Wiki his always gone with. I disagree with that decision, especially if the deleted scene offered up some form of clarity on a certain topic, like Alexandria St John's death. That should be Canon. So I guess we can agree that deleted scenes will be considered Canon for MTX Wiki. Exactly. It's not like they didn't want to show those scenes anymore, they just didn't have time. I didn't even think about that deleted scene from a budget perspective. This makes deleting that scene between Jo and Kai even more confusing. What's the deleted scene with Bonnie, Stefan, and Enzo? Not sure if I've seen it. I guess technically, he's like the administrator of his own school so, that's kind of a step up from an outside perspective. But when looking in, yeah he's just a babysitter.

      I think just about anyone would have been a much better villain than a teenage girl that is remarkably similar to Davina. I would've much rathered Dominic than Inadu. Sure, he would've been related to Hayley, but Inadu was absolute trash. Such a lackluster villain. I wouldn't have really cared if Josh had died. They aren't doing anything with him. Writing Josh off would probably be the best solution tho. I'd be perfectly fine if they never mentioned or introduced werewolves again. It'll only get worse from here if they continue to write for them.

      Assuming Mary's here to stay, then yeah, she'll be relocated. Archie in Chicago is like TO without the Mikaelsons. It wouldn't work. Riverdale has to take place in Riverdale.

      Had a great 4th of July weekend. Hope you had a great one too. And thoughts on the new wordmark? Decided to go with the show's actual logo

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    • I was just reading an article (before the holiday) about how, with each crossover, they are (?) attempting to out do themselves. At this point, I can't remember if it was their conjecture to out do themselves or if that was what was expected... but yeah, lots of brainstorming to work that in and suit the overall plot, probably Supergirl or Flash related related. At one point, I thought LoT was going to focus on the Thanagarians, but I guess when the Hawks left the show after s1, they scrapped that idea, thought they have the options to do it again (if they bring them back). See that is where time travel confuses me, because initial, before the copy created Savitar, who occupied the prison... O.o like did it only come up with that villain or who was released to contain Savitar. Maybe I missed it but it didn't make sense to me. Who knows maybe it will be the season of Kid Flash and they wont even focus on Barry lol. Not likely imo, they will probably have him back by episode two "under mysterious circumstances" or the speed force will be like "there is a greater threat on the Horizon..." and "go be free". Nope, not looking forward to "glorified" Hope, and her new pet Roman. Smh. At least there's like 9 months between it actually happening. (? lol not sure if that is good or not). They could at least had a proper send off to the character, but when do we ever get that for the "minor" characters. smh it's just poor writing. I mean even in shows where characters leave, because there is "ill" will bts, they still incorporated said character in the plot, where appropriate, I mean outside looking in, the appearances for all intent and purpose was the same. Idk why it couldn't be said there.

      No, you're correct. Didn't accomplish anything,... well except have Bonnie get her magic back and then completely destroy Hell and herself along with it. Nothing too big. lol. As far as I'm concerned that Katherine was lost after she became Human again. She wasn't the same after that, which was a shame.

      A show about the Originals, yet they can't write for 2 of the 4 surviving characters, the other they've killed off. It completely baffles me, how that can happen. Josh is just one of the many, imo, things that could have easily been stated, but they chose otherwise. It's not the fact that it's Josh or I just desperately need to know his (confirmed) sire, it's the fact that it should/could have been so easily stated that they chose to ignore such a detail. Lol that logic is sound. I don't see why it couldn't work. Hmm wonder if his sires would be on par/weaker/stronger than originals. For some reason, I can't imagine the venom thing would transfer down being strong enough to kill an original, a normal vampire possibly.

      As long as it doesn't break canon, I don't have a problem with it. And like with Enzo's, a user approached me and I obliged his request. I also agree with Alexandria's it brings closure and imo, not hard to believe she lived when initially Damon/Stefan said everyone in the Armory was dead (pre-deleted scene).

      I wouldn't see why they couldn't be used stated to be otherwise. I mean unless it just directly contradicts something then it can be handled on an individual basis (example, filming three deaths, though two were done to avoid spoilers like what some movies have done, not that it would really happen for a network show). XD that's settled.

      Yeah it's interesting to view it from another perspective, though I guess they had their reasonings, no matter how poor I consider them to be. Here is the scene... well it's the ones towards the end, anyways. The YT vids have them broken up between disc 1-3 and there there's one where all the scenes are combined in one. Lol yeah babysitter indeed. In the slides for Roman, before they were supposedly revised, Roman ran to Hope's room because he stole Alaric's bourbon and he was chasing after him, etc. So yeah, babysitter sounds accurate.

      I was rather impressed with Dominic, the actor's acting was much better and he was entertaining to watch mop the floor of vampires. (The Hollow, other than her scene where she stabbed Hayley and break their necks, nothing else was really good from her. I prize the gif I made for the Telekinesis page where the Hollow stakes Hayley. Brings a smile to my face, though she could have done it with a little more permanence). Supposedly Josh is confirmed for S5 so probably Hope's new BBF, because what other story would he have. (His Davina replacement.)

      Yup. Lol I guess in due time we will figure out her role. Any leads about Sabrina? I.e. have they cast anyone? I don't follow it closely (like here or occasionally TO). I doubt they will introduce her so early but thought I'd ask.

      I did. Didn't do much. Although I did get to read through Book 2 (Day Shift) and I finished Book 3 (Night Shift -audiobook). I do like the wordmark!

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    • Its probably a little bit of both in terms of trying to out do themselves. As writers, they'll wanna see how far they can go, and then on the other side of this, there's the network, who's trying to milk the age of the heroes for all they can. I was genuinely surprised when they got rid of Carter and Kendra. I didn't really care about either but I also wasn't expecting them to leave the show. That professor lady (whose name I can't remember) created the prison for Savitar. Shes the one that was helping them, and took a liking to HR in the process. There's moments when I'm utterly confused by the time travel. I had to watch the scene when Savitar revealed his origin a couple times. I was so lost at first. Barry might even be back by the end of the 1st episode. That's always been one of TWs biggest problems, they don't know how to write off characters. Ethan, Jackson, Isaac, Derek, they all just left without even saying goodbye. Danny disappeared. And Allison (main character of 3 seasons) didn't even get a funeral scene.

      Ok. Fair enough. Bonnie did get her magic back, but it was written in a terribly idiotic way. They could have had that scene in the dance room, and it would've made a lot more sense. Agreed. But it makes sense since S5 was one of TVD's biggest fails, so thus Kat became a fail

      They write an entire season around Hayley, Hope, and their lame ass ancestor, yet they can't find storylines for two OVs with 1000 years of history. It's absurd. That bugs me a lot about TVD/TO. The little mentions that they could easily add in that would make sense of certain situations but choose not to.. I think Marcel's sirelings would be weaker than OVs but far stronger than baby vamps and hybrids. At least that's how I would write them. I don't think the venom would transfer over either. I don't understand how it would.

      That deleted scene with Enzo certainly cleared things up. I remember a lot of people questioning his fate after the finale. That last scene with him was a bit unclear. Damon said that? Then it shouldn't even be a question. Alex was in the Armory, so she counts as everyone until it's stated otherwise. Agreed. It something to be handled individually. If it offers clarity over contradictions then I see no reason not to use them as canon.

      I'm not even sure that can be considered as reasoning. More like shipper logic. I don't remember the specific episode where that deleted scene with Kai and Jo but I know it was during the age of DE and the build up to SC, so there was probably a ton of shipper bs they could've cut instead. I see. You're referring to the unnecessary roughness. Dick move but I like Ripper Stefan. It's the only time he's worth watching. Lol, that's hilarious. Ric needs to slow it down anyways.

      I can agree to that. He was clearly a better choice as the main villain over in Inadu. They might as well have made Davina the main villain bc every time I looked at her, that's all I saw. Davina actually might have been slightly better. Danielle is a better actress than Blu(?). I loved the scene where she staked Hayley onto the railing of the door. That was awesome, but like you said, there wasn't much more beyond that. Didn't see the gif, but I'll be going now just to check it out. Sounds about right. Since Marcel is gone, that only leaves him with Hope, which is dumb but I can see it happening.

      Nope. All I know is that they just finished filming ep 1 a few days ago. Nothing on casting yet. But I'm on look out.

      Damn. So were the books really good? I've heard a lot of positive things about them. That's a cache issue with the new wordmark. If it hasn't fixed itself already, then follow these steps at the top of the page for which ever applies to you.

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    • I honestly don't see some of them lasting much longer. I feel like Arrow is one it's last legs. Flash, too, if they can't stop recycling the same plots about speedsters. Smh. basically the same old story. I do like the morally ambiguous new "killer" Frost. I'm interested in seeing what they do with that character now. Must have been an issue with the cast (?), idk why they left, I think it was something about they went their separate ways to figure out their lives, etc. I kinda wished they would have brought that back though. Hmm I guess it was, but you think time "fixing" itself would have done away with the prison. Idk it's all confusing to me at this point, but yea. They won't keep him gone for too long. They will probably pass it off as a time jump that took x-amount of months/couple years to "free" him. Sad about Allison I would have figured they would have taken an episode or at least part of one to mourn her. Heck TVD have had numerous funerals and memorial episodes. It sucks with the others too. It's not hard to give a few details about a character leaving.

      Imo they never should have done the "psychic" crap and Bonnie should have regained her magic with Enzo's death, and they could have had Katherine like her old self. S8 was trash though so, what can you expect.

      It's absurd and TO has greatly suffered from it. Fans came to see the show about the Originals not some pregnant groupie and her spawn. I wonder if they will go that route with sirelings from Marcel. At this point we'll be lucky if we even get mentions about them with the turn s5 is taking. I can seem them being stronger than regular vampires but maybe same level as hybrids, since they are superior because of their ability to kill vampires, but I agree, I don't see how venom would transfer either, but if it did, I'd imagine it would be a weakened version of venom that would affect normal vampires. Idk, hard to say, but yet weaker than OV too.

      Right. It answers questions and doesn't take away from the established "canon". If users continue to question it, I don't see why it would be an issue. I'd have to go back and double check I believe it was either him or Stefan after the twins siphoned Bonnie's spell. Bodies are scattered across the floor (it was never explained how Sybil (Damon and Enzo) escaped, but seems like between what was said the Deleted scene, I believe actually showed that she was killed, so to me, it seems like it would be cut and dry. Should a policy be made, just so it's known? I agree about clarity and certain situations can be handled when they arise. "Unnecessary" is one word. Just more trash towards Bonnie and the never ending crap that JP sends towards her.

      Lol, Davina was better to watch. The Hollow is blah at best. By all means it's the best action that happened throughout the entire season, also it's on the Telekinesis page, under the Hollow. :) Best scene. Lol left with Hope if they go back to New Orleans. Which at current point, I don't see why they (or Hope) will go back. I doubt she will "graduate" lol.

      Yeah, I guess they will introduce her in the latter part of s2, if they even do it. I rather liked the books. Fiji was a pretty interesting character and I rather enjoyed Olivia's. She was of main focus of Book two and some parts of Book 3. I saw a comment on twitter where if they get a season 2 (link), the source material may be from book 2 (since for s1, it's plot taken from books 1 & 3). It's resolved itself. I figured it just took some time to work itself out. It looks really good. :)

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    • Agreed on arrow on its last leg. Its been trash for several seasons. But I think flash can still be saved. Like you said, all they really have to do is stop recycling the same storyline with Speedsters. This is a point that the writer seem to understand, seeing as S4 won't be about a Speedster villain. From what I've seen, a lot of people are interested in killer frost storyline, including myself. It'll be fun to see how she handles being both Killer Frost and Caitlin, she's only as ever been one or the other. Time was already fixed. Savitar didn't technically exist yet. He was just a remnant. He was trying to make sure that he was born, and for that to happen, Iris had to die, but she didn't. I see a short time Jump. I doubt it would be years, even though I would like for it to be. That would be cool, Barry would have to come back different, probably darker if he stayed in that prison for too long. I actually want to see that now. I didn't like Allison, but even I have to admit they did her dirty by just dismissing her death like that. It just annoys me so much when a character disappears without reason or notice.

      I hated the psychic and siren bs, so if there was one season of TVD that I could obliterate from history, it would certainly be S8, without a doubt.

      TO isn't even a fitting name for the show at this point. They might as well rename it. At least that way they can't be accused of false advertisement. I highly doubt they're going to address Marcel being able to create vampires. With JP taking over, I wouldn't be surprised if Marcel and Vincent get downgraded. I don't think she cares much about either of them. I could also see them transferring the Venom over, even though it doesn't make sense. This would pretty much rid the need of any werewolves. Two birds with one stone, that would be for the writers since they hate the wolves anyway.

      It's such a simple solution to an often occurring problem. If deleted scenes are addressing the problem, then I don't see why they shouldn't be used as Canon. Didn't Damon, Enzo, and Sybil escape through that little blind spot in the cave, where you have to be blind and deaf to go through it? I still don't fully understand the concept of that. XD way ahead of you. I'm pretty much done with the policy already. I've just been looking for a new font that closely resembles that of the show to add to all the header pictures on the policy pages. When I originally added the old ones, they were always meant to be temporary.

      It's a sad day when Davina would have been a better main villain than an our actual main villain. They're at least lucky this wasn't their final season, so now we can't say that both TVD and TO's final seasons were the absolute worst. Went right to the telekinesis page and saw it, it was awesome. There's literally nothing left for any of the Mikaelsons in Nola. Not to mention that everyone hates them. Just leave.

      Well, I just learned that S2 will have 22 episodes, which I was fearing for obvious reasons. This runs that high risk of filler episodes and unnecessary ship drama now for RD. I actually heard that Olivia was the main focus of the second book, that's what makes me want to read it more. So now I'm hoping that MTX gets a second season even more than before.

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    • It's definitely been going down hill for me. The freaking flashback crap is what gets me, annoys me to no end that they keep bringing up all these flashbacks. Do you know any plot details for S4 Flash? I can't wait for more episodes with Killer Frost, though frankly I don't understand the alternate/bad personalities. I mean literally everyone developed one, except for Wally and Caitlin cover came her enough to gain back her control (hopefully it lasts, or there's an interesting mix of the two, although "bipolar" Caitlin may get boring.) I guess I get that part, but unless I missed something with the prison, I thought that Savitar took care of that... well I guess while thinking it through, with no Savitar, the prison was still created and not neutralized? Ugh sometimes time travel makes my brain hurt lol. I'll have to revist the finale and see what they say again. Hmm, idk if we will get a "darker" Barry. we basically got that with the time remnant/Savitar (glad he didn't turn good there at the end, lol). I feel like, regardless of being in "prison" he'll get special treatment from the speed force. Idk why I think that but, seems like he'll come back stronger and more knowledgeable. Does time move differently in the speed force and if so, would Barry age? Do we even know this kinda info? Lol I get that. Alison was really annoying to begin with and for me was tolerable later, though annoying again leading up to her death. Idk I think with the acting, you could tell something was up with the character. Speaking of... you see the new trailer. it actually brought a little faith back, not sure how I feel about the plot though with all the new hunters.

      Lol can we just discredit like 98% of S8... the rest was nonsense and trash.

      Just go ahead and rename it to JP's spinoff idea? At this point a "downgrade" would be better then not showing up again. I feel like at this point it's too blended with this spinoff idea and considering they are aging up Hope, I don't foresee it being anything similar to the past seasons of TO. Logically, I don't know how they will explain that, if it were to transfer over, but they would be the new "hybrids" (without actually being one, which would be annoying imo).

      That would be the only explanation, though if that was the case, why hadn't Sybil escape prior to Damon and Enzo. Again, another thing they didn't really address. I mean I know Sybil said something about not having eyes (? - that they shriveled or something, I can't remember was she said) though that wouldn't have affected her hearing... well I guess it could, but they didn't indicate that. Lol okay. Speaking of font, I've been thinking about the possibility of styling text throughout the wiki, like on True Blood Wiki, with the unique text for the section titles and article names. I feel like that would be interesting to have, I've not explored it though, just been browsing other wikis and gathering ideas.

      Lol that's funny, Davina was better, the Hollow was just more powerful. Smh that is true too, although I can't (willingly) imagine a much more awful season than s4, but I'm sure we will get it regardless. Leaving seems like the best option. They had the chance to utterly leave the Hollow and all that crap behind and have Marcel/Vincent handle it but they stayed. Smh they should have left when the gettin got good lol.

      That's a logical fear. I don't see them not having filler episodes with that number. Some will probably reveal a key plot point like the last five minutes or whatever. She is. Book 2 was great and they could explore her backstory more and/or her job of being a hit women, well whatever they don't give us in the show.

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    • When I first began watching Arrow, I thought the flashbacks would be over by S1, clearly I was wrong. I have no idea what they have planned for S4. I don't recall if they ever went into an actual explanation for it, but it just seems that becoming a metahuman created a secondary personality for Caitlin, evil alter ego. No, he never took care of the prison. Once Savitar got out, he threw Wally in. And once Barry got Wally out, Jay took Wally's place. And then Jay got out, and that's when it began to destabilize, so now we're here, and Barry is in the prison. I don't want evil Barry, just a more mature and understanding. A barry that understand that the world isn't so black and white, and is willing to make the necessary sacrifices. If I remember correctly, time does pass differently in the speed force but I forget just how, exactly. Allison was super annoying. The new trailer was great. I'm excited now, even though I wasn't at first. Kate, Jackson, and Derek were all on my list of characters i wanted to return. I also wanted Isaac back. I like that they're bringing in Hunters, it reminds me of S1, a bit nostalgic. The hunter seem badass, but they're not the only villains, there's an ancient evil name to Faceless as well.

      I think 2% is being a bit generous, but we can go with that xD.

      If JP's intent was to downgrade them for the sake of focusing on the Mikaelsons more, then I'd be all for it. But we both know that wouldn't be for that reason. That would require competence above all else. If anything, she'll be focusing a lot on Hope in an effort to turn Rope into DE 2.0. I don't like to think of them as hybrids just bc of wolf venom. New breed or upgraded vamps would be more accurate. But I could see them being treated as the new hybrids, like getting killed off every episode.

      That's the same thing I asked when they first addressed that blindspot or whatever the hell they called it. Why didn't Sybil escape from there in the beginning. I remember her saying something about her eyes but I honestly didn't listen to much of what Sybil had to say. I got a font that's about as close as it's gonna get. You can check it out on the policy pages, I'll look into font styling on the wiki. I like the idea.

      And that was one of my biggest concerns about S4. Since Marcel was so powerful, they would have to introduce an even more powerful villain. So, they focused all their energy into someone just more powerful, resulting in a trash villain. I also never thought that they would write a season worse than S5 TVD, but that's exactly what they did. Which means TO S5 could be terrible too. From what I hear Freya, Keelin, and Hayley are staying in Nola. And I have no idea why. There's nothing keeping any of them there.

      I'd take filler episodes over nonsense shipper drama any day, but I'm honestly hoping for less of both. Though this is unlikely. Even though rev is a weretiger, which is just so badass, there is no character I'm looking forward to more than Olivia. I like kickass humans.

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    • Arrow has been stale to me for the last season. Like I'll have it on, for background noise mostly, but I don't really care if I keep up with it or not. The flashbacks keep getting into more ridiculous plot imo, the last season centered about the Russian mob. Smh. I just can't anymore. I didn't start from the beginning with this show and I'm glad I didn't because I'd probably be much for hateful towards it. Hmm. They will probably release something during Comic Con, like all the others. But that's it with the metahuman thing why does it create this alter-ego that's evil like 98% of the time. There's like 4 metas that are good, it never made sense to me. I get that part of it but I guess I though with time correcting/rewriting itself, then it would have not existed as well. I'd like a "morally-grey" Barry. So many heros never make the choice to "take-down" the villains when it's needed. I think with enough time, we could get something along those lines. I was actually surprised that Ethan and Jackson was returning. I had heard that Derek was coming back, though I was suprised with Stile and Derek. However I feel like all of that is just baiting and they wont be center of the final season, something like they did with Stiles at the end of last where all of them will be back in the final few episodes. Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised. I'm still wary of Gerard. Like why haven't they killed him yet lol. Oh well, he's kinda grown on me XP I take it Isaac isn't confirmed. I don't believe I saw him in the trailer. Yeah it's nostalgic, I hope it will be good though. Seems like what ever is going one, they will be outed or something (which is never good). The "Faceless"... hmm seems unoriginal. Ancient, wonder if they are going with a form of immortality.

      Lol I wish I had some amazing empirical formula to back it up :P, but yea, my 2% is like mostly Bonnie, Beatrice and Sheila scenes :P so call me biased, (though there are a few others that I liked).

      Well, I hope JP does focus more on the Mikaelsons, but she will probably also try to pitch her spinoff crap. Gah a DE 2.0. That alone is enough to turn some away and probably the only reason they are aging her up. Per say, No... more like Hybrid-Like. All the perks without being one, their treatment would probably be the same, so yeah I concur with that.

      Lol just another trash point of the season and only came up (or never stated/discussed) when plot demanded it so. It doesn't have to be the same I looked at their MediaWiki:Wikia.css, their font seems specific. With midnight so new, I don't a font has been created/released (for public use)... Monica or someone in production may be able to provide some ideas.

      The Hollow's only high point was she treated the characters like puppets and flung and killed them (temporarily) when ever she wanted. She could have clearly killed them like Dahlia, but didn't. I can't say I'm thrilled for TO S5, but I'm not expecting much of anything. Freya I get. She wants to study the Hollow's magic in an attempt to reunite her siblings. Keelin, flat out plot/LI... big freaking whoop. Hayley, trash reason. Like why wouldn't you be there with/for your daughter. What could she possibly do in NO.

      It's probably unavoidable at this point. They will have both. Filler will probably be point romance/breakup stuff. Fyi book two is interesting on the weretiger front XD. Reading the books, Olivia has really grown on me, Fiji as well. Joe and Chuy surprised me as well in book three XD

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    • I believe I stopped watching Arrow after S2. That's just when it really started to get bad. The first two seasons were really good though. I was shocked to learn recently that they were still doing the flashbacks. Like really? Are 5 seasons of constant flashbacks really necessary? Before the explosion, a lot of the metahumans were bad guys and criminals even before they got their powers. I don't think too many of them have alter egos. They're just dicks. As for all this stuff about time fixing itself, I'm definitely not the best person to ask. It's too confusing. Yeah exactly, a morally gray Barry. Wally was only in that prison for a short amount of time, and it left him just a little bit traumatized, so I want Barry to spend a lot of time in there, and come out different. I was more surprised by Ethan's return. Colton had already said on Facebook live that he was in talk with the show. And Hoechlin had been seen behind the scenes recently. JD has confirmed that these character returns won't be cameos. Each character is returning for specific reason to serve the plot, they each have a storyline supposedly. This makes me believe it was more about getting the gang back together than it was baiting. Baiting is typically done to increase ratings, but what would be the point of that if this is their final season? Scott's a punk, that's why Gerard isn't dead yet. As for Isaac, no he hasn't been confirmed, but this doesn't mean he won't appear. Don't really know much of what they have planned for faceless yet, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

      I guess my 2% would be seeing the sirens die, and Kai's return. But that's pretty much it for me.

      I honestly see Hope, Hayley, and Caroline taking up a lot of the screen time. I'm positive JP is trying to mold Rope into DE 2.0 since she can't get Ian or Nina back on. This was probably the biggest reason for them aging her up. Stefan and Damon were bodying the hybrids, so if they were to introduce Marcel's new sirelings, I see pretty much a repeat of that.

      I should have some free time later today, so I'll definitely take a look at the font situation.

      Exactly. She had the power to get things done, but there was no charisma, or excitement with her. They focused all their efforts into making her strong, and we can tell. Oh okay. If the plan is to study the Hollow's magic, then that does make sense, and since Keelin is basically her little wolf puppy, she'll follow Freya wherever she goes. Hayley on the other hand has absolutely no reason to stay. She obviously doesn't care about the Crescents.

      At this point I'm just hoping for as little of it as possible. That's great to know, so it seems like Book 2 is really the book for me.

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    • Lol The Originals could have taken a cue from them and had a couple more flashbacks from the ancient family of vampires, but no they don't do many of those. Hmm true I guess I didn't think of that. I guess I was mainly focusing on Violet or whatever her name was (the telekinetic girl) and Caitlin both developed evil personalities. To me it doesn't make since when Say Jessie, Wally and Barry didn't. I need to look for a time time or something. It's confusing for me. A lot of time travel movies get me (though I got Doctor Who's 11th and River Song time line XD my favorite season!). I think it would be an interesting dynamic. I mean they briefly had something like that with Cisco's brother dying and his and Barry's friendship... eh not really comparable but something darker. Ethan's is a surprise. Where has Jackson been, with Isaac (in Europe or wherever he and Argent went?). It's been so long I don't remember lol. I knew of Hoechlin's return. I hope the plot centering will be good, though returning for a specific reason kinda sounds cameo-ish to me. Hope they stay around for a bit. Lol Scott's on my annoyance list (I believe we've discussed it before in TVD comments). I wouldn't mind seeing Isaac again. As long as the faceless isn't lame like the Benefactor was. smh.

      Lol so each 1% XP

      I don't even see why Nina or Ian would come back... they have no reason to be on TO, even with the Boarding School. They are both human and can't "teach", well no more so than Caroline. At least Alaric was actually a teacher, though magical studies (and the practice thereof), nope... lol. Well if Hayley can drop ancient vampires then dropping potential marcel sirelings will be a cake walk.

      It's not biggie. I've just been browsing a few "supernatural" and related wikis just to drum up some ideas to make MTX stand out.

      Like I get she supposed to be "hollow" hence the name, but she could have showed a little more gusto with killing or whatever (or actually killed someone of importance and had them stay dead, smh). Oh my lawd! Wolf puppy that is cringy! Lol I never thought of it like that. Why would Hayley even care about the Crescents at this point? She left them for 5 years and what kinda Mother will leave her daughter for a bunch of inbred mutts? lol no sense what-so-ever.

      Eh, sophomore season... there will be more, hopefully they balance it well enough where it's not overdone. Book two is good. I believe I found a pdf version online via a torrent or something, idr. I had already bought the book by the time I found it.

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    • Yes, that would be perfect. If there was ever a show that needed multiple flashbacks per season, it's the Originals. I never put much thought into the evil personality situation bc it doesn't come up that often. The particle accelerator affected people on a molecular and DNA level, since some people are born different, maybe that has something to do with it. I didn't really like that rivalry that Cisco and Barry had going. Angry Cisco isn't as cool or fun. Jackson was in London. Isaac is in France. But I'm not so sure he will be returning since the actor is now on FTWD. Scott's refusal to kill is what has him so high on my annoyance list. Not sure how long any of them will be around, but like you, I hope they stick around. I'm more interested in the hunters than I am faceless, but we'll see if that changes. As for the Benefactor, I've always given the writers a pass on S4 of TW bc there was literally only 3 months between the S3 finale and S4 premiere. That's short af to put a season together.

      Pretty much. The Sirens death was very satisfying.

      There's no reason for either of them to come back, but I still see comments (fake rumors) about them coming back. It's absurd. They wouldn't leave the show they were leading just to come in at secondaries on the show in the same universe as the same characters. The last thing we need is three of useless Carolines. Oh yeah, without a doubt. Hayley would be dropping Marcel's vampires like nothing.

      I haven't really been doing much browsing, but I've been keeping my eyes open in case I come across something.

      Haha. I guess the name "The Hollow" was even more fitting than they intended it to be. Keelin is literally like a lost dog. I don't hate her like I thought I would, but there isn't much substance to the character. She's just there to hook up with a Freya. Give Keelin a story and maybe my feelings on her will change. I know she doesn't care about Crescents but should the time come that she needs them again, she will try to go reruit them like always. And they will probably follow her bc they're dumbasses. Their dumbass peak had to have been going five years without an alpha. I've never heard of any type of pack doing that before, wolf or werewolf.

      The writers and showrunners are competent, so I have a little faith, more, more than I do in TO at least. I've made peace with the fact that I'm not going to be able to get to the books before the premiere, hopefully after S1 I'll be able to get to them.

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    • Lol a shame that the Originals couldn't (or wouldn't) do more with the flashback. They could have done whole flashback episodes. That would have been interesting. Yeah I guess it doesn't it's just kinda weird to me. Like you never got a criminal being changed to something good so why would someone "good" like Caitlin be changed. Idk they will never explore that. I found it annoying, but I think that was partly because when Barry "came back" Cisco and everyone around him had lived it... he was basically stepping back into his shoes, picking up where he left off and no knowledge. I think it was an eye opening moment for Barry, for what he caused, but yeah anger does not suit Cisco. I do want Gypsy to come back though. I love her guest appearances :)

      lol here I was thinking they were paling around with Argent. Yeah I heard that Daniel was on FtWD, he's apparently doing well on it so... there's always hope though. There's been multiple things for me, but that's a high one. Like at least Derek had what it took to kill Peter (his own family) in S1... Gerard had it coming and instead, he poisons him with Mountain Ashe and forces Derek to bite him. smh. Would have been simpler to kill him. Eh. Jury's out on the Faceless. At this point just hoping it's not too lame like past villains. Depends on the hunters for me. Needless and reasonless hunting supernaturals like Kate without regard to them is horrible imo. Putting down killers on the other hand is justified lol.

      There's been like three different users posting the same article about Nina's supposed return. Like freaking check the sources because the articles were city sources about Nina's appearance back in 2014, and just just changed dates and stated it would premiere earlier in the fall in Nov. Smh. All wrong, yet people claim they are factual when it's absolutely absurd. Lol because a human Elena/Damon would bring so much to the plot. Like Klaus would have his hybrids again, he'd surely kill Damon (and the cure along with him) and that would be the end of that.

      I've only been around to like 3 lately.

      I mean she could have been a little more enthusiastic for killing or something. I get she's supposed to be ruthless and emotionless but dang her acting was like a wet paper towel. Dominic, at least, had more "oomph" in the three or so episodes he was in. I guess there or only a few/small number that I hate, oddly none come to mind atm. I don't hate Keelin either, but she's been utterly useless since they created the dagger to kill Marcel. Like she should have been long gone by now. She literally has no story though imo, her family was massacred and she was living in Austin before moving to NO. Like she just up and moved her whole world, however small it was, and Stockholm-ed her way into loving Freya. Just trash imo. You'd think after the Hollow incident while she left them, they would have nothing to do with her, but they are tooooooo stupid for their own good and will follower her for whatever reason. Right, five years is a long time, they should probably all be dead by now without a proper leader.

      I did if I'll regret having read them. Supposedly it's plot heavy from the books. I feel like I'm just as excited for it as if I haven't read the books, and I don't care too much about spoilers, so I just really can't wait. Feels like it's been forever since the first tidbit of info and now it's practically here, just a little over a week left XD

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    • Well, since this was always intended to be the Hayley and Hope show, it makes sense that we haven't gotten as many flashbacks as we should. That's a fair point about no one ever turning good once becoming a metahuman. Not that Cisco's anger and attitude wasn't justified, it just doesn't suit his character well. I prefer him when he's happy and funny. But after everything Barry had caused, it definitely makes sense. Gypsy is cool. I like her.

      I haven't gotten the chance to see Daniel on ftwd but I plan on catching up eventually. I've also heard good things about him. Exactly. Derek wasn't the best Alpha but at least he could do what needed to be done. He put down Peter when the time was right. Scott should've done the same to Gerard. The mountain ash poisoning just seemed unnecessary when he could have killed him. I'm not too sure about Faceless right now either. I really like Kate, she's one of my favorite characters. She's a psychopath. So she's fun to watch.

      Users are linking to websites like Christian Post or even worst, websites I've never even heard of before. It's 2017, and people still believe everything they read online. Nina and Ian are done, they arent coming back. Knowing JP, she'd find a way to force Elena and Damon into the storyline if she could, even if it made no sense and was boring af. It might even be a slight ratings booster. You know me, I'm all for Damon's death.

      The Hollow was boring, plain and simple. The acting was trash, and just about anyone could have done a better job at the villain. The dagger that can kill Marcel is bullshit in its own right, but once that was done, keelin should have been gone. Her venom is pointless to them considering they could only get 6 of the 7 venoms needed since Tyler's dead. Had this story being less contrived, once Freya let Keelin go, she would have went back to her life as a doctor in Austin. There was no one holding her back. I especially love how the writers tried to say it wouldn't be forced. It amazes me that the Crescents have managed to survive at all, let alone without an Alpha. And now it seems like they're gonna take her back. Too obvious.

      We're almost here. I really hope they've been promoting the show on tv. I'm gonna be pissed if the ratings fail and we don't get a 2nd season. I'm hoping it does so well that we get one of those half way through the season renewals. That would be perfect.

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    • So true. Not like we want flashbacks of them. Ugh they are horrible enough. Yeah idk why they decided to have some, seemingly good-natured people durk evil/dark when they became a metahuman. Lol we need the the biochemistry of metahumans 101. :P Oh yeah. It's justified, especially after he found out that Barry did what Cisco wanted him to do, to change the past to save his brother, though I think it was a decent mini arch. Sure Barry screwed up multiply lives, but I think Cisco came to terms with the fact that it could turn out horrible if Barry tried again. He also knows that Barry has to live with that one action that messed up many lives... Jon, Caitlin, Cisco, etc. etc. I like Gypsy, though it's interesting that she has the same powers as Cisco (imo, she's better), though Cisco has his good moments for me (mostly the comic relief, that's why his anger showed depth).

      Eh. I'll probably never get caught up with TWD, so I won't even attempt FTWD. Lol because Scott's so much better. Nah. Out of all the known Alphas I'd rank, Tatia, Satomi (assuming, she seemed well respected, etc.), Derek, ....... Scott. Heck Deucalion, pre alpha pack, was a decent alpha. Idk there may be more, but I can't remember. She's a compelling villain. Her actions are horrible and yet, I do like her more than others. I typically don't hate on villains unless they kill one of my absolute favorite characters (or if they just annoy the heck out of me).

      Right!? Lol, it doesn't take much to fact check something or to go to reliable sources. I mean if they aren't stating the same facts, then something isn't right, but I guess that is the casual wiki-er. Idk. I called two of the three users I suspected to edit that. The third actually asked in the comments prior. What killed me though, is there were comments discussing the fake-ness of those reports, as the edits were made... like if you check the feed, it was there. Smh. If she could, probably. That's why it's so horrible that Klaroline could happen. Ugh. I wish Candice would just move on, but I can't see that happening. Hmm. That is really tempting. Dead Damon. I could definitely use a laugh at that happening, though I doubt that will happen.

      Tyler's bloodline, the Lockwoods, were the main family, I believe it branched out, otherwise, if they were all dead, Hayley couldn't get all 7. He was dead prior to her finding the venoms I believe. But yeah, Keelin should have left ages ago, yet for some ill attempted plot of "Freelin" ugh. If kidnapping someone and literally using the Stockholm plot, isn't FORCED.... then idk what is. Lol The Hollow should have slaughtered all of them upon her resurrection. Done them all a favor and be free from Hayley and give her another thing to cry about.

      They have. I've been watching NBC for a couple days now. I was watching the Night Shift (medical drama) last night, and they showed one of the trailers like three times throughout the commercials within the hour. Charlaine and Monica have been promoting it. NBC seems to have been promoting it. I think being at Comic Con will be a huge help, considering it will premiere the following night. Also I listened to a podcast with Monica a few days ago and it seems that NBC have high hopes for it (to pick up the pilot). Also, #TexasTea (and #MidnightTexas) are the hastags to use (the first was a collaborative effort to pick something on twitter from a couple twitter users) (Monica Approves)

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    • Since TO is doing a large time jump for S5, I wouldn't be surprised if we got flashbacks of Hayley and Hope. I haven't put any thought into it really, but it's probably just them following the flash comics. Yeah, it worked as a mini arc, but I'm glad that's all it was. A lot of people didn't like angry Cisco. I was happy when they finally resolved that. I think we all know that Gypsy would kick Cisco's ass in a fight, not that he wouldn't put up a fight, but she's far more skilled.

      Ftwd is pretty low on my list of shows to catch up on. It just doesn't hold my interest like TWD. I agree with that listing of Alphas. Especially when Scott is dead last. Yeah, before Deuc went blind, he seemed like a genuine leader. The only other Alphas besides the ones you listed were members of the alpha pack. Kate's psychopathic tendencies and recklessness is what drew me into her. Not to mention she can kick some ass. Her actions were terrible, but they were fun to watch.

      I think they're just so naive, and happy that its true, so they don't even use common sense. It seriously doesn't take much to discredit those articles. They're poorly done and it just doesn't make sense. I'm hoping that JP just has plans on baiting the KCers, like she has done before instead of just making klaroline happen. I would give anything for Candice to move on. That would officially put an end to the ship. I'm 100% sure it will never happen, but I still like to think about Damon's death

      It was said by Freya that Tyler was the last of the Apasi Bloodline. Meaning if there are any other Lockwoods, which I believe there was at least one more, they weren't a carrier of the wolf gene. Tyler died in 2017. Hayley began her hunt for the ingredients to the cure in 2014, so within those 3 years she would've had to come in contact with Tyler at some point. The funniest part about Freelin is how their shippers deny the fact that it is Stockholm Syndrome. It's classic. The Hollow wiping them all out certainly would have made me happy but unfortunately she was a failure like the rest of that pack.

      Really? That's good. 3 times within an hour suggest that they really want people to watch. You see something enough times you eventually go to check it out. I've noticed the promotion from the network, Charlaine, and Monica online. Hopefully this show is as good as we think it's going to be. I saw that. Personally, I'm more of a #MidnightStrong kind of guy but it is what it is.

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    • Ew... Just what we don't need lol. Yeah I guess that would make sense though it would seem like they would have some liberties with fleshing it out. However they may not want to "create" a reason for it, who knows, still seems odd to me. Angry Cisco was good for a mini arch, but beyond that, I don't think it would have been good for the show. He would have ended up becoming a villain and with Caitlin already in that route, it was good they pulled it back with him. Lol I think they are a good team with each other. I hope we get to see more of her in the new season. Or at least Cisco could learn a thing or two from her.

      I kinda wished they explored Satomi's pack a little more. I know they introduced her and did a side bit with Kira's mom, but beyond that and the portion where her pack was being killed off I wanted to know more of her. She seemed interesting. Lol I suppose you're right. She's one of the few that had a decent depth to her character, other than falling into crazy town and murdering all supernatural creatures. RIP Hale Family. Has she been confirmed for the final season? She disappeared after the Berserker bit right?

      Naive is one way to put it. Maybe they are just too young and takes whatever the internet is "reporting" as pure fact regardless of common sense. Like you said it doesn't take much to discredit those articles. I'd take baiting, over it actually happening. Nothing that it's less annoying, but hey shippers need to learn too. They've been getting it since they parted ways and I don't think this will change things. If anything, it's not like Klaus will come to the "school". Being an actual "teacher" well babysitter would mean putting the children first and having Klaus around would not be suitable for their survival. I hope Candice moves on. An official ending would be great, though then JP couldn't use it as bait.

      Ah maybe I got my terminology mixed up ("I've been tracking the lineage and the last of the modern family died a couple years ago, under dubious circumstances."). Then yeah I guess there would only be 6 of the 7 bloodlines left and the anti-venom was lost when the Hollow threw it out of Hayley or Freya's hand when they tried to rescue Elijah. I also wasn't factoring in the timeline. That makes sense too. Yeah so that makes Keelin utterly more useless. LOL denial. Smh. That is the freaking definition of "Stockholm Syndrome". I mean it's not like they are going to have her clinically diagnosis herself, but it's totally there! Lol I can't even deal with these crazy shippers that think it's something beyond that. yeah it's a shame. She should have ended them though didn't they claim that the Labonair (one of the 7 bloodlines) that Hope is the last living? Technically isn't she mixed with the NEAP too? Like wouldn't that dilute her blood anyways. Idk. The whole mythology was just butchered.

      It seems that they really think it will be a good turnout. I saw an IG a while back about how fans can comment to NBC per their website to compliment the show. Watching and tweeting and stuff of that nature would help with the chances of renewal. I'm super-excited for it and I know the cast and Monica are too. I was personally leaning towards #MidnightIsComing (a GoT take). Not sure who/how #TexasTea was come up with, other than the show being set in Texas. (I.e. what does tea have to do with it, unless I missed something in the books :P)

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    • Are you kidding me? Hayley and Hope flashbacks are exactly what we need. I don't really know much about the Flash comics. Comics arent really my thing, but I have heard that they been following it a lot. I honestly don't think that's much of an answer here. I likes Caitlin as a villain, but I don't think Cisco could pull it off. It's actually funny that we were talking about Gypsy bc she was just confirmed to be recurring next season, so you got your wish. It would seem as if the speed force is answering prayers today.

      I've always wished that they further explored not only Satomi, but her pack as well. She must have been incredibly powerful judging from how big her pack was considering the more betas you have, the stronger they all are. Not to mention one of the eldest werewolves alive. Brett is going to be in this season, he is one of her betas, so I guess fingers crossed that maybe we learn a little more about her pack. I liked that Kate enjoyed being a hunter so much, and she was good at it. Never had to worry about her being a Damsel in Distress. Yes. Kate was in the trailer that they dropped some days ago. She disappeared after the S4 finale and we haven't heard from her since. I've been dying to see Gerard's reaction to her being werejaguar.

      Yeah. That's where the naive part comes in. I'm assuming that they're just young, and so they believe everything they read. Slightly baiting KC here and there is much better than KC actually happening. Not to mention I could silently stalk the KC page to watch their epic rants of entitlement and massive bitch-fits after being played by JP for the 1000th time. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what the shippers actually expected for Klaus to do next season. There's no way in hell he's teaching at a school. Klaus Mikaelson, the killer of men, women and puppies all of a sudden wants to be a teacher. I think not.

      I would love to see the writers bumble around like idiots to try to explain how Keelin was still needed despite Tyler being dead. I guarantee you they never realized this. Its so strange that a doctor doesn't even realize that she's a victim of Stockholm syndrome. But then again this is the same doctor that took away her own powers, so I guess it makes sense. Not all but a lot of shippers are intolerably dumb. I don't know how else to put it. They are so blind and insufferable when it comes to some of these ships. Yeah Hope is Labonair and NEAP but they've never really touched on how werewolves feel about commingling bloodlines.

      If we don't have a renewal halfway through like I'm hoping, then by the end of S1, we're going to have to round up a mob and just bombard NBC with an overload of tweets and messages xD. I just don't like the sound of #TexasTea. Sounds kind of feminine. I hear that and I think of a small group of middle-aged woman during their weekly book club.

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    • Lol. Just like we need Hope surpassing her Mother's marysue-ness. I've only ever followed a select few comic. DC, not so much lol. More like certain characters occasionally, but they tend to change with the writers, so I don't put much stock into it. Caitlin is better than Cisco imo, though apparently Cisco was more powerful then she was at least on the alternate Earth when Cisco was Reverb (idk if that is the correct spelling lol). SWEET! Lol. That is amazing. I wonder if they have confirmed a villain, yet. I saw something from Tommy about villains. I'll have to go exploring.

      Did they ever give a reasoning for the lifespan of a werewolf? I know Peter said something about they age different and that he was much older than Derek but he could pull off being a high schooler or something? I know Kira's mother was supposedly like 900+ though Satomi was what, nearly 100. I wished they would have explained that a bit further. Yeah Satomi was really cool and her pack would have been an interesting side story, though I guess they couldn't focus on something that large. Sweet, maybe we'll at least get a few mentions then, or maybe an appearance. I take it Brett left her pack then, or was that confirmed? Kate could definitely take care of herself, though, with Peter, I felt like she was a bit too cocky and becoming the were-jaguar was, in terms of her and not the plot, was luck of the draw lol. Same trailer as Ethan, Jackson, Stiles and Derek or has there been a new trailer? I'll have to rewatch it if the former lol. I want to say that Chris shot her with a rare wolfsbane and he and the Caliveras (sp?) lol went hunting. OMG I want to see that reaction too. Now I can't wait. What do you think his response will be. All "Abomination" or possibly acceptance that she can hunt even better as a "beast". I mean I imagine had to have told him about his "favorite" child lol.

      So true. I honestly don't see the appeal. It makes no sense to me, but then again most shippers don't make logical sense anyways. You'd think the whole, fool me once thing would come into play, but I guess hope is everlasting. Those epic rants can be hilarious, others just annoying. Just like the Hayley stan, like get over it already. Right. That and he literally can't be near Hope (for now). Alaric's been confirmed so I bet if they release anything about Candice, it will be during CC this week, we shall see. I honestly hope not, though they won't outright deny it either.

      Supposedly on the S5 or S4 Finale page, users have already pointed out the timeline errors with JP's spoiler about the new villains from 1930s. lol Epic fail from the start. She's stockholmed... I mean in LOVE. That's all the reason they need to turn a character bisexual and be thrown into a LI. Like we've said before, for someone who is so smart, she's dumb. Like self-diagnose and move on. Sounds like more incest, then again the original tribe may or may not have been related to each other. Lol 1500 years of inbreeding and you get Hope. SMH.

      I hope we get a renewal halfway through. That would be amazing. Speaking of two syposises in one day. That's pretty neat. XD Twitter mob. I love it. Tweet tweet and tweet. Supposedly Live tweeting helps with "tweeter ratings"... I've not looked into it, not does it affect Nilson ratings, but I guess they factor in all this stuff. LOL Cheers XD

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    • Exactly. Hayley can only stay in power for so long. It's her child's destiny to surpass her and take the thrown. I never paid much attention to Caitlin before she became killer frost. She was always kind of boring to me. Cisco has always been entertaining though. And yeah, at their greatest potential, I believe Cisco is more powerful. The villain for S4 is Clifford DeVoe / The Thinker. I'm just hype he's not a Speedster

      They never gave a detailed description of how werewolf aging works. We just know they age a lot slower than humans. I also wish they had further elaborated on this topic. Satomi isn't confirmed for the season but there's still a chance she could appear. No. Brett wouldn't have to leave the pack. They all live in Beacon Hills, Brett, Satomi, and the rest of her pack just live on the other side of town. He usually comes around to help with a problem, like that Chimera they fought at the club in S5 or to play lacrosse. She was definitely too cocky. Kate was going up against an Alpha. She should've been less cocky and more prepared. Complete and total luck. Like Peter said, turning someone from a scratch is incredibly rare. She was shown in the same trailer. Yep. That's correct. Argent took off with the Calaveras to hunt her down but we never learned what happened beyond that. I've been waiting since S4 to see how Gerard would react. He hates monsters so much but tried to become one in order to save his life. Now his daughter is one. Can't wait to see how that plays out. That's exactly what Kate wanted the Triskelion for. If she could learn to control her powers, she could return to her family and they could rebuild. So yeah, with full control she'd be an incredible hunter and asset.

      Well, the shippers themselves are a bit illogical and erratic, so I guess in a totally screwed up kind of way, its sensible that they'd fall for an illogical ship. At this point it's just as much the shippers fault as it is JP's. They're allowing her to do it despite knowing her track record. The ones were they preach over and over about how they deserve this and that can become annyoing af. You don't deserve anything, especially not after the way alot of KCers behave. Easily one of the most aggressive group of shippers. I've actually seen a couple comments from users (KCers of course) saying that Klaus is gonna visit Hope anyways. Dumbest thing I had heard all that week. Klaus isn't gonna risk Hope's life just so you can have your shipper moment. Damn! If Ric is confirmed, Caroline must be next.

      I havent been to the Sinners page in a few days, so I'll have to check it out. But I'm not remotely surprised that they screwed that up. Freya suddenly being bisexual was stupid enough. Throwing her in a Stockholm relationship will Keelin was just a prime example of TO dumbassery. You never know. Look at the Crescents. I coined the name Incest Clan for a reason. It would explain the unmatched stupidity that seems to run through that bloodline.

      I was not expecting that 2nd synopsis at all. Completely taken off guard. We'll be "Midnight's Twitter Mob". I've heard about networks taking live online presence into consideration. Don't know much about it tho. LMAO! This is exactly what I picture with #TexasTea

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    • Edit: I figured I would place this at the top. Smh Horrible news (well hopefully she's just in the premiere but Caroline is confirmed.

      Lol maybe their marysue-ness is like the power of a Supreme, as a new one rises, the previous one will weaken and die. XD For Me Caitlin was really just a background character. She really got interesting with being (no-so)-Killer Frost. Cisco is okay. Every show seems to have the "fix-all" character. Cisco is like the Smoak of Arrow. He will invent and develop something to help move the plot alone or do something techy/computer-y. Supergirl has one too. Anywho, not that they are bad characters, I find Cisco entertaining, I wish they would change it up a bit. I did like his and Caitlin's fight, though it was a little benign. Hmm. Never heard of him. TBH, based on the name alone, sounds rather boring, though at least he's not another speedster. He sounds like he will be the type of villain that lays trap after trap or something that Flash and co., will continuously thwart.

      Yeah that sucks. I'd like a little more details with the mythology. -like where do they come from and why is their aging so much slower. I feel like they could have explored that a bit. Then again, they kinda just throw things out there and then nothing else. I mean 6 season later, we're still trying to figure out Lydia's powers (although the last was better by comparison lol). I must have neglected that point. I thought Satomi was from outside of BH. Shame we never heard much from her until later if they were in the same town. Brett is okay I guess. He's not around enough for me to decide on that. Given everything, you think she would have been more prepared, but since then, I feel like she's somewhat less cocky. That would have been another interesting mythology plot point to delve into. In popular myth, a bite, a deep enough cut and drinking from a wolf print (under the moon?) would turn you into a werewolf. The second they featured in Hemlock Grove. Something like that, yeah you think they would have mentioned it or something with Argent coming back with the Ghost Riders. I feel like Gerard will somewhat envy her. Since he was cured with that rare plant (to stop throwing up the black blood or whatever) do you think he can be turned by another alpha (or even Kate?). That would be a unique twist (though I don't see them exploring that route with so few episodes remaining.

      Lol the Logic of illogical shipping. Shippers want it and JP continues to bait it. Nothing really that the shippers can do about preventing it, so I place more blame on JP and co. They deliberately do that for ratings. Every show does it. Look at TW using the returning stars to promo. Like some views will solely comback for Derek and may have to sit through an entire episode for a couple minutes at the end. That was the same "logic" with the note from Klaus in 8x16. They teased the Klaroline in the TVD special trailer and then the letter was the best they got. Like that's some kinda shade towards the viewers, yet viewers fall for it each and every time. Lol because one ship is more "deserving" than another. Right. If anything it should be the characters that get crapped on the most. Bonnie and Matt and Tyler. I can't even stand the aggressive shippers. Like what is it getting you to be like that? Nothing and at the end of the day it's ultimately up to what the showrunner wants and what is going to get views. Delena prime example. What. Lol absurd. Everything that Krybaby Klaus has done this season was been for the protection of his daughter. >.> Caroline isn't on his to visit list.... when his daughter is living at her boarding school. Smh more illogical fails. JP wants her I assume and I don't we will hear of any denial though they are poised to start filming at the end of July. We may hear something at CC or JP will leave it open ended like "we'd love for her to come back, etc."

      It was a passing view for me but doesn't surprise me that JP can't follow her own time line. They should literally have some kinda electronic Time Line format that they can double check. As a writer, why shouldn't you automatically do this to make the best compelling and accurate show. Like it's continually sad that she and other writers can't fact check their own work and constantly retcon their own stuff. To be fair. Keel's bloodline must have had inbreeding as well. Probably not as extensive as Hayley's lol but thereabout for her stupidity (well the way she was wrote).

      I was shocked. I didn't figure we'd get it so soon. But I guess we'll get the promos and stuff after the first episode XD. Get it trending. "Midnight's Twitter Mob" will help get the show renewed :) Lol thought's you'd get a laugh out of that. I would, though, like to know the reasoning behind #TexasTea. I feel like if more people responded to the original tweet, they could have had more suggestions but idk. Maybe it will change later on.

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    • Just heard about it. It's gut-wrenching. I truly hope that it's only for the premiere but knowing JP it'll be for a lot more. We knew this was coming though.

      Precisely. There can only ever be one all powerful being in existence at any given moment. Right now that's Hayley, but soon it will be Hope. That's pretty much how I felt about Caitlin before she became killer frost as well. She never really peaked my interest. They're both useful characters, but Cisco's always just been more entertaining. If it's one thing that the flash needs to work on more than anything, it's changing it up. They need to stop being so predictable. I hadn't heard of him either before they mentioned him on the show, so I just looked him up a little bit. I agree, he doesn't sound like the best villain, but anything's better than another Speedster.

      We do know werewolf origin (S3). The first werewolves (Lycaon and his sons) were cursed by the god, Zeus, bc they refused to worship him or somethign like that. That's always been a problem with TW. They introduce things and they don't really explore it. Even in S6, they introduce Mr. Douglas as a Löwenmensch. What tf was that for? I like Brett, and how his friendship with Liam evolved. Yeah she was cocky but in Kate's defense, the night that she was killed by Peter, she wasn't actually hunting him. I believe she was going after Scott and Derek, but Peter just happened to be there. All three of those popular myths have been proven to be true in TW. Plenty of wolves have been turned by a bite. Kate was turned by a scratch. And Sebastian Valet became the Beast of Gévaudan after drinking water from the paw print of a wolf under a full moon, which I thought was really cool. I'm just happy that Kate's returning. I see envy as a possibility, but I'm not sure if he can be turned. It's possible. Maybe the wolfsbane he was given was only meant to kill the mountain ash poison.

      They can start ignoring JP. They can stop taking the bait. They can stop watching. If they did all this, there be no one left for JP to bait. I feel like anyone clueless enough to keep taking the bait can only blame themselves, and that goes for all shows. But I don't think TW cares about ratings, since they're ending. But I could see people coming back just for Derek. LOL, that one little note gave them so much hope for some reason, as if it actually meant something. Just about every faction of shippers for whatever reason believe they are more deserving than every other faction of shippers. They all sound like idiots when they say it. With the aggressive shippers, I've always just assumed they were immature teenage girls. But even then it's like you're old enough to know it's just a show. I didn't respond to the comments, but that's exactly what I was thinking. Klaus dedicated all his time into protecting Hope, he's not going to put her in danger over a ship.

      LOL, electronic timeline? They got the wiki. We know at least Narducci knows about, so it's a safe bet she knows about it too. But I'm not even remotely surprised that she has no idea what's going on with the timeline. Even before she started writing, they should have checked up on that, what were the Mikaelsons doing during that time period. I don't think any bloodline is as inbred as the Crescents, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was something going on with the keelin's bloodline as well. She's clearly not right in the head.

      In recent weeks I'm starting to see a lot more people catching on to the show, saying they can't wait for it. So a Twitter mob just might help especially if we get it trended. I'd much rather be hashtagging Midnight's Twitter Mob over Texas Tea.

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    • I'm not particularly thrilled about it, but yeah, it was expected at this point. For now, all that source provided was the premiere. Though a lot can happen between filming so, we can hope it's for one episode.

      I don't know who is more annoying at this point, Hayley or Hope. Given the situation, yeah they can be. Caitlin and her medical knowledge has been invaluable and Cisco's technical and computer knowledge seems near-boundless. Predicable is one word. lol. Yeah as long as it's not a speedster, I'll give anything a shot.

      That's established? Eh I must have missed that. When did they bring in Zeus? I feel like that would have been important. O.o Lol true. They could have easily just made Mr. Douglas a werewolf and been done with it versus a "new" species. Yeah, though as a hunter, I would have thought she would have been ready for him, but I guess she wasn't. Ah yeah, I forgot about Sebastian's origin. That makes sense now. Depending on how much power she displays to him (if she does), then I can see envy. I'm a little interested. Is it established that only Alpha werewolves can turn humans? Like what about Were-coyotes and jaguars? Can they get an "alpha" status like Mr. Douglas did? or as long as they obtain enough power it doesn't matter about species? I feel like if they could, there would be more of the different "were" species.

      At this point it more the shippers. I mean a couple years worth is one thing but season after season... I bet even now, since she's confirmed, she will bait the crap out of it and nothing happen from it but keep it a possibility for a S6, though that's laughable. Not now. Just like TVD. They are ending no matter what and it can be as ridiculous as they want to make it because what will it matter? I wont watch it live, but I'd be more apted to watch it for returning character. I'll eventually get around to dl-ing the episodes to watch them. I don't get it. What constitutes one ship being better than another or more deserving. Nothing, unless they think a mass following makes them entitled, when it's the same trash being spouted over and over. That is a logical answer. Aggressive immature teens who swoon over an abusive yet attractive ship (with an accent). So healthy.

      I'm being optimistic I guess. They obviously know about the site, yet things are still, constantly and glaringly wrong. As much as it's an lol moment, it's quite sad. She should, but that would be way too easy. Making it up as you go is so much more fun, right? LOL "She's clearly not right in the head." Best line! Clearly XD

      I've seen a bit more tweets floating around especially with CC coming and some new app, with badges to unlock where they are advertising. Lol maybe that can be the season 2 hastage. MidnightMob XD

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    • It's a long shot but all we can really do is just pray that Caroline is only in the premiere.

      Hope certainly annoys me, but I hate Hayley. I don't think I've ever hated a character as much as her, so she definitely wins. The Flash could benefit from mixing it up a little. That's never hurt before. It's like they're in this same old routine.

      Yep they established werewolf origin in 3x08. The same episode they explained what makes a werewolf eyes turn blue. Zeus was only ever mentioned in that one episode for being responsible for the the creation of werewolves. Douglas being a lowenmensch was just so unnecessary. It seems like something they thought of at the last minute. Yeah, she should have been prepared but it worked out for her in the end, so still a win. After that SDCC trailer they dropped, I' doubt Gerard wants Kate. He's leading the Hunters to take out everyone. No, it's not established that only Alpha werewolves can turn humans, but no other species has as of yet. I think werecoyotes can, they're pretty much the same species as werewolves and yes I think they can be Alphas too. As for werejaguars, they're a completely different species, so there's no telling.

      The shippers are so thrilled right now. Even though Caroline is confirmed that does not confirm Klaroline. JP was never a huge fan of it, and she could just be baiting them like before, which is what I'm hoping for. They'll keep taking the bait as long as she keeps putting it out. Pure shipper bias. That's the only thing they need for them to confidently say that their ship is better and more deserving. Oh yeah, the shippers love the handsome men with accents, even if they're abusive af.

      Maybe JP doesn't come to the site to read the information. It wouldn't surprise me if she just came to read our comments. That would actually explain why the show is so inconsistent. She isn't actually checking the info. I wish we had another werewolf from the Malraux bloodline, just so we can see if they are carriers of the dumbass gene like the Crescents.

      I'm all for the next hashtag being midnight mob. I've also been seeing alot of tweets about those badges. Not paying much attention to them tho.

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    • The 4D experience looks amazing!! XD

      I saw a user post that there's a rumor floating around that she will only be in maybe like 2 episode and they are all upset because they can't re-build a relationship in that span. Lol I just can't...

      Hope annoys me so teenage Hope will probably be more annoying to me. I rarely hate characters. Stefan got that with me for the Bonnie crap (and those deleted scenes). Definitely. Changing things up are usually pretty good and with three previous season all about speedsters, a change is much needed.

      Wow. That seems completely random, but okay. I'll have to check in on that. Lol. A lowenmensch does seem unnecessary and they could have fleshed it out a bit more, otherwise, they could have just made another over powered wolf like Deucalion. It's still a win, definitely. She's bee upgraded and to me, it seems like (other than the control issues she had), she rather enjoying becoming what she is. Hmm. Wonder if he wants to take out Kate too then. I just don't see her working with Scott and co, but if that's Gerard's stance, then I don't see her being out of the woods. Lol I'd like to see more werejaguars running around. They a feline "were" so maybe it's different, yet she was created from a werewolf, just like Jackson was a Kanima. Seems a bit weird that one species can spur so many different "abominations".

      Actual bait would be better then the ship, so I'm all for it. Lol, I get shipper bias, DE issues going on because I made a simple edit, and for that because I'm not all lush with DE, then I'm an anti. It's hilarious. They can get over it.

      She doesn't care about what's already happened, just wants to know the trends and the "it" ships that everyone's talking about. Who knows, maybe they will have another one. Seems pretty difficult to wipe out an entire bloodline, when they all have survived for 1500 years. Wouldn't be the first time they retcon something.

      Yeah not sure what that app thing is, but all the tweets about the badges gets annoying.

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    • Agreed. I wish I could have been there to see it.

      LOL, I genuinely hope this is true. I am going to be laughing my ass off if that actually happens. I'll be ready for salty Kcer tears and rants.

      That's what I'm worried about. As a child, I feel like it was toned-down, but as a teenager, I think she'll really be Hayley jr, and that's going to piss me off. There's only ever been a few characters that I truly hated, and majority of them come from the TVDverse. I'm hoping this season of TF will really revive the show.

      If they didn't plan on expanding the mythology with the Douglas then they should have never did it. I'd have less a problem with it if they actually further elaborated on the creature. IMO, Deucalion is a thousand times better. Kate certainly seemed to enjoy her power, especially being able to create and control Berserkers. Speaking of which, we see Kate in the latest trailer, and there appears to be a beserker as well. So it seems like she's back and ready for a fight. If Gerard is trying to kill her too, I see Kate just doing her own thing. No way is she teaming up with Scott's pack. She blames him for the fall of her family. I'd like for them to dig into the werejaguar lore a little more too. So far the only other Jaguar we've gotten was Hayden, and she was only part where jaguar. But the writers got rid of that when they turned her into a regular werewolf. Well they've kind of explain that. It's been said a couple times that sometimes the type of person you are reflects the shape that you take. So I think if Jackson and Kate were to have been turned by another species, they still would have ended up as a kanima and jaguar. It's who they are.

      Just checked it out on the DE page. That's hilarious. I don't know why it's so hard for them to understand that the ship ended. Last we saw, they went their separate ways in death therefore it ended. DE shippers already won. DE got their happy ending. Shut the hell up and be happy.

      When you said the "It" ship, it reminded me of Rope, and and what's destined to be. You're right, wouldn't be the first time they reckoned something. I could see one of Keelin's relatives popping up claiming that they escaped the slaughter as the rest were being killed.

      It's spam at this point.

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    • Me too. I did love the walk through though, it was a pretty decent "experience" for not actually being there.

      Yeah idk if JP will actually do it though. I'd love to see it not happen though. I mean there's literally no point in it. As a teenage, she'll be the second "super-witch" (I bet Josh will even state it again.) smh. You know she will be. She'll make Freya look like she's been practicing magic for 2 days running circles around her. :P Smh. I kinda hope they have her kill someone, trigger her curse and then not be able to practice magic (then again with JP in charge, she'll retcon a retcon, and wont that screw EVERYTHING up, yet again.) Yeah I'm hoping so. Seems like it could use a revival. Arrow is practically out for me at this point and LoT is probably one of the better ones out. SG is okay too, but the dang ships are annoying as all get out.

      Oh yeah I agree. If they introduce something knew then, it's only natural for people to want to know more about it. Though since they literally just said hey here's this new species and slammed the door in our faces... it's like what's the point to begin with. Deucalion was good. I'll give him that. Kate's just crazy and unpredictable. Deucalion wanted power (wished he got it too). I just watched that trailer... Maybe she's bringing them back with her. XD Free-for-all supernatural/hunter battle royale. Kate's always in it for herself. I wonder if Chris would side with her though... I mean he's teamed with Gerard, though with caution and backup plans. Family is afterall... family. Yeah Scott's a no. Lol I always forget about the chimeras... they're practically all wolves (like you said they actually did it to her) to me :P Well except the one that can turn invisible. I'm always up for more mythology. That is one of the most interesting parts to a supernatural show imo. That's a lame answer though like.. that makes it completely and utterly random imo.

      I'm just like excuse me for following formatting. It's crazy at this point for something so fictional, it wont even matter in a year when the next Hit ship comes out. Smh. If I would have known such a simple edit would have cause a war, I probably wouldn't have done it. Smh. They are exhausting.

      Right. Like some long lost third cousin twiced removed on her aunt's sister's family... lol Like they'd make up some crappy story to make her have a sense of family. Smh I guess we will see if it actually happens with JP in charge, anything is a flip of the coin at this point.

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    • I think she will do it since this is her last chance with S5 being the final season. Lol I could definitely see Josh calling Hope the super witch, and that will probably be the start of their friendship. We already got a peak at her besting Freya in S4, so now that she's a teenager, it wouldn't surprise me that she does it to a greater degree during S5. Hahaha. That's awesome. Put an end to to the super witch by triggering her wolf gene. The only problem with that is that we risk another dumbass Crescent. Hopefully, she takes after Klaus more than she does Hayley in that aspect. But like you said, they could come up with the bs 'she is the first of her kind' excuse. I completely dropped Arrow seasons ago because it was such trash. LoT is solid though. SG bores tf out of me.

      Exactly. Seems like they just introduce something new bc they could. No actual reason for it. I love the unpredictability of Kate. Always wondering what she's gonna do next. Deuc wanted a super Alpha pack. I wish I could've seen that come true. I would assume she is bringing the Berserkers. I see an epic battle in our near future if the Berserkers are involved. I could see Argent and Kate teaming up. He may not approve of her methods, but that's still his sister. Never understood why Corey wasn't part werewolf. Maybe then he'd be more useful. I hate that he got to stay as a boring chimera while Hayden didn't. It is kinda random but that just seems to be the case. At least with Jackson. It was never actually explained why Kate was a jaguar, but that was just my take on it.

      That's how crazy and invested some of these shippers are. It's all fake. In the end, DE went their separate ways. Why can't you ungrateful crybabies just be happy that they got like 60 years of happily ever after. It's a lot of fuss over one little scene.

      TO hates wolves outside of Hayley, so I doubt they gonna go through all that just to introduce one but it would be great if they did. I have to know what the rest of Keelin's bloodline was like.

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    • Yeah. Who knows. Seems more like she will (like she did with TVD) if she can get Caroline (which doesn't seem like an issue) though Idk how believable it will be if she's not in it all season (plus his killing spreed attitude). Lol maybe that is why Josh became a regular... lol Hope's new babysitter and best friend. I swear if they make Hope a triggered wolf and retain her magic, that will just screw everything up even worse. Then again, they would be the ones to endorse teenage killers. I mean look at Phoebe's comment about her and Hope running around as wolves. -.- LoT is really good. I can't wait to see what they have in store for this next season. SG's fight scenes are pretty great. The romance stuff is boring, not as bad as other shows. I'll probably drop Arrow unless something catches my eye.

      Yeah which is pointless. lol. That generally makes a good villain. Probably why Kai was so good. Is Deucalion coming back as well? I know he was around with the Nazi wolf and Beast. Not sure what happened after that. Yeah. Very rarely, if ever do we see the villain win and if they do, it's only for a couple episodes. I hope she brings them back for an epic showdown. (she would then likely turn on the others, but hey, it would be interesting). Lol true, but I guess they didn't want a werewolf that could become invisible. The whole science and supernatural, imo, was just silly. Like it's not supernatural it's science, yet she was resurrected by "supernatural" means, then was bitten and became supernatural, more or less again. Like it's such a headache and convoluted. Yeah, no I get that. To me, it being the luck of the draw or being random and the "it's your true self" kinda answer is just lame. What gets me is that Jackson, what "cure" or died or whatever as the kanima and became a werewolf (btw, excited to actually/hopefully see that) so seems like there would be the possibility for that to happen to Kate. LOL ironic twist Victoria wasn't killed by Chris XD... throw her back into the mix.

      Lol crazy shippers. I don't understand it. They "find" or create, crazy substantial meaning things out of the smallest actions and label you as something else, if you don't instantly share their view. Like okay. At the end of the day, it's a tv show, it's fake and it's not going to mean anything in 2-, 5-, 10-years from now. Lots of fuss for no reason.

      True. I don't see JP doing anything with the wolves either. Unless she wants to give Hayley something to due, back in NO, other than being with her child. (hmm. then again it's a boarding school, which didn't cross my mind, but you'd think such a special snowflake wouldn't live there for her or the other student's protection. Lol She literally has no purpose other than a LI, so I really doubt that, then again, it could be done as flashbacks, but I don't see the need for that either.

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    • LOL believable? That's your biggest concern? JP hasn't concerned herself with anything believable since S3 of TVD. If she wants it to happen, it will happen. Sounds legit. They need Josh around more to watch Hope since she'll be around more, so they upgraded them both. I wouldn't be surprised if hope retains her magic as a werewolf. I'm kind of expecting. They throw Canon out the window to suit the plot. Phoebe should just stop commenting on the mythology. She's clueless. I might just go to YT and check out some of these good SG fight scenes. I've only seen one or two.

      Kai was shockingly good. Still have my doubts that JP wrote that season, but I'll give it to her. Yep. In the Comic-Con trailer, you can see a glimpse of Deuc at the end. He wasn't around for the Nazi wolf. He was around for the Beast tho. The last we saw of him was when he had been working with Scott. Then Gerard shot him. I may be wrong, but I think the only villain we actually saw win was Theo in 5A. He killed Scott and took the Chimera pack. It was a brief win but still a win. I see Kate turning on everyone if it means her survival. I believe she cares about Argent but I think Allison was the only person she truly connected with. I'm just happy 5A and the dread doctors weren't as bad as it could have been with science/spn. Werewolf Jackson is something I've been dying to see. I was so disappointed when he didn't return in S3. That would be so screwed up for Argent, even more so now that he's getting involved with Mama McCall. It wouldn't surprise me if Victoria survived seeing as her eyes glowed just as Argent stabbed her.

      The shippers love to label anyone in disagreement with them as anti shippers. Personally, I am anti-Delena, but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand. DE went their separate ways in peace, that's the last we saw, so that's all we have to go on.

      If we're lucky, Hayley's biggest story will be that guy she's hooking up with in S5. Keep her away from the main story. I'm still annoyed at the fact that Freya was willing to become a vampire just so Hope wouldn't lose both her parents, and yet Hayley isn't even staying at the school with Hope. For all that they might as well have put the Hollow in Hayley, and let Klaus stay at the school

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    • Hmm. In hindsight, "believable" is probably an overstatement. Yeah if she wants it, it will happen no matter how ridiculous. I shutter to think of the Bonnie/Enzo paring via a time jump and JP could certainly do the same with Caroline. Idk though, believable it would not be if Klaus has been on a killing spree over this jump (which could be 7, 8 or 10 years). LOL they literally start filming 5x01 this week and the cast and crew are all "confirming" different accounts. It's laughable really. I've notice Josh getting a lot of hate because he was promoted to regular over Kol. It's justified in part, Kol is a Mikaelson (an Original) and yet they "can't write for him" unless it's with Davina. Smh. Well Hope is the next Mary-sue messiah that will plunge the world out of Darkness, create peace on Earth, save the (were)wolves from extinction.... lol that may be a little over stating her worth. :P Normally, I doubt though Hope actually killing someone, then I think back and remember Davina killing those witches and Sabine/Celeste. There is a good possibility it could happen. I rather like them. They need more, especially with the Martians. I know it's supposed to be all about Supergirl, but I Tyler's Superman and the Martians when they show up.

      Lol ghost writer. Good to know. I've watched the trailer now like 3 times, and apparently I see something new each time. Pre-Nazi wolf. It all runs together in my mind. I'd probably remember it better if I talked more about it, but once the episodes end, I usually don't. I was referring in general... I.e. Francesca Guerrera had her moment of victory and lost it all in the next season premiere. But Yeah, Theo is the only one to come to mind in TW; still a win XD. I mean, personally, he gets my vote just for "killing" Scott (no matter how brief). True. Science is usually a poor subject in supernatural media and I hope in MTX, they don't elaborate on that. There been a few comments either in the book or for press that Fiji see magic like science but it's not. If I can find it again I'll share it, but it's ambiguous and I think more of a generalization. To this day I don't understand why he didn't return for S3. Supposedly, I've heard, is because CW poached him for Arrow and that there were a lot of things bts, in regards to his personal life, that influenced his abrupt departure. I'm still not into Argent/McCall... it just doesn't sit well with me. I generally believed that it would've been Sheriff Stilinski because they pushed the whole Stiles/Scott "brother" bit and then, if they married, they would have been actual (step)-brother. Lol right. Shocker. She used to be into the con and stuff after she left and she did make an appearance in s3 (as a hallucination). I think that would have been an interesting twist, but I believe Kate has that spotlight.

      I just don't care about shipping. Out of every ship, whether platonic or otherwise, there might be three, that I've cared for (all involving Bonnie of course --with her Grams, with Jeremy and Enzo, eventually grew on me). Facts are facts and like you said that is what canon we have to go on. They think JP's word is law and "canon" when in fact it isn't. It's silly imo to get so invested in such an absurd thing as shipping.

      When have we ever been "lucky" in regards to Hayley. I mean look at the atrocity of S4 and her. Right that would have literally been a huge smack to the face if they had went through with it. Smh stupid to even contemplate it and then.... not even be an Original at that (well no white oak, so I guess not feasible? Idk). Lol it probably would have been a better condition. I mean Klaus already gave up 5 years. Let him have 5-10 so you don't have a murderous Original Hybrid on the lose.

      Btw Happy premiere day!

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    • Bonenzo will forever be one of TVD's most random ships. This was only done bc they didn't know what else to do with Enzo. JP's signature move. I'm annoyed at the thought of seeing Caroline again. I don't really get the need of Klaus going on a killing spree either, not that I'm complaining. Better than stay at home dad Klaus. It absurd how much of a mess it is. Can someone just confirmed the time jump, and everyone agree. They're making simple things difficult. I get the hate, and I'd probably be right there with them if Kol hadn't already been destroyed. Hope's a Mikaelson, so if any teen is likely to make their first kill, it's her. They're natural born dicks. Maybe then they'll take into account the aggression she should have but doesn't. Tyler's Superman and the Flash crossover are the only times I watch SG. Better than arrow tho

      Haha. Ghost writer has never been out the question. Kai was too good. I've watched every season of TW at least twice, so its just easier for me to remember. Damn! You had to bring that up. I was legit happy when the Guerreras took over. Of course the writers screwed that up. People like to discredit Theo's accomplishments bc they dont like him, but killing Scott ranks him as one of the best by doing what all others failed to do. I've seen the article about Fiji seeing science and magic as one and the same. Colton left bc they only wanted him for half of S3, and there was supposedly some other BTS stuff. I dont care for Argent/McCall. I dont care either way but for years fans wanted Stilinski and Melissa. Thats how it should've went. LOL, they cant have too many lady Argents returning. Then everyone is gonna bitch about Allison

      Dont care for any romantic relationships but I did always like Tyler/Matt, Tyler/Klaus, and Tyler/Mason (All involved Tyler of course). JP's word is never to be taken as law. They can't even get a time jump right. She has no idea whats going on in the TVDverse, nothing she says matters.

      I feel like we were lucky in S4 of TVD. She was pretty minor. S4 of TO was a Hayley/Hope fest tho. Absolute trash. I didn't care much for Freya this season but glad she didn't got through with it. Would've been the most pointless sacrifice ever. If they're taking turns, it was 100% Hayley's turn to make the next parental sacrifice. Klaus just lost five years, why should he have to lose more while Hayley wastes this time in NOLA?

      FINALLY! Happy premiere day. Long time coming.

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    • Considering there are very few moments that actually make sense coming from JP, why would Caroline coming over for a guest episode be of any sense... just like apparently Caroline and Josh having a scene, whether Carina says to "chill" about that or not. Smh. Half this crap is half-truths and the other have is baiting/lies. Klaus on a killing spree... just doesn't make sense. Not speaking or skyping with Hope doesn't make sense. Like it's the freaking 21century, not the dark ages. Technology exists. Just pointless, though I have to say, it will be nice to see Klaus kill again. It's so rare these days. Supposedly eight is the "magic" number because Julie has said that in a few videos, though, I doubt we will get a confirmation anytime soon. Yeah I get it. Doesn't mean that Josh or the actor deserves it. It's all JP at this point. Kol's character has been ruined for a while now, so hopefuls are just wondering if he will come back. I wonder if they will actually do that though. They need to address the non-existent aggression though. Better than Arrow. Flash better make some decent changes this coming season, or that I might drop too. LoT is still interesting to me though

      That may be the only explanation for such a good character. That would also explain JP's "sudden" interest in redemption for Kai (she took back over XD) Eh. I've just watched the original run. Unless there are re-runs like the network shows after the original run, I typically don't rewatch. Lol that was just one of the few instances that I thought of. A win at the end, only for it to be completely changed in the "next" episode (finale to premiere). I don't hate him. I thought it was glaringly obvious that he was the villain... but that's just bad writing. In fact "killing" Scott ranks him pretty high for me XD

      Speaking of... I plan to write her summary sometime later this evening. Just been super busy today and fell asleep after I finishing tagging caps.

      I heard, supposed Colton, since Jackson was adoption, was going to turn out to be Peter's long lost son though his leaving changed things (then we got her who I don't care for, no offense. Just another glaring plot hole imo.) I had heard though it was more related to some BTS stuff though. I doubt we willl ever know. I don't care for Argent and McCall either. At this point I couldn't really care any less about the whole subject, but yeah Stilinski and Melissa should've been it and now it kinda just craps on fans about that. True! Though Allison wouldn't have a legit reason though, I mean Victoria was at least bit, like Kate was scratched. Allison died a relatively human death (sword through the stomach is rare these days though lol)

      The bromances. lol Nah they were cool. Jeremy and Tyler were okay when they weren't butting heads. Saying JP's word is canon is just a poor excuse. They backtrack and what-if all the time and opinionated just like the fans. It can never be taken seriously.

      Freya was okay. Not as good as prior seasons. I was watching a comic con video, well the only one, and JP stated something about how the number of spells were ridiculous or something this last season and said that for the final season like one (or if any) spell an episode. Smh essentially the same thing she did with S8 and depowering Bonnie. Smh lame. Lol Hayley is what 0-3... like she should spend a few decades away from Hope. But that will never happen.

      Life has been busy the last couple days. I plan on writting summaries tonight... well within a couple hours. XD

      It was fantastic! The reviews have me a bit bummed out, but it's the highest rated summer show so, hopefully the momentum will continue!

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    • I've always said that Josh was TO's counterpart to Caroline Forbes. They're both generally useless baby vamps that rarely contribute. If they throw Keelin up in there, it'll be a trio of uselessness. Has anyone confronted the writers about that? Like ask them on Twitter why Klaus doesn't just FaceTime with Hope? There's no reason why he can't still see her for those years. I agree that Josh doesn't deserve to be promoted, but illogical decisions are one of JP's greatest qualities. I doubt they'll address the aggression. They're probably just going to ignore the fact that she has the wolf gene entirely. Don't think I could ever drop the flash, but I feel my interests slipping.

      I was thinking the same thing. Kai's redemption arc must have started at the same time JP took over for writing again. It wasn't bad writing, they made it intentionally obvious that Theo was a bad guy from the beginning. In 5x02, he crushed his fake parent's hand with a hammer. People still try to discredit what he did, but I just laugh. Can't discredit killing the true Alpha when no one else has.

      That's a rumor. The actual story for S3 was going to be something like Jackson being the kid of one of the members from the alpha pack, I can't remember which. I like Malia but I never saw her as a plot hole. Peter was forced to forget her. It doesn't matter that Allison wouldn't have a legit reason to come back, or that it's not possible, the fans don't care. They just want her.

      Lol. Some would call them that. Tyler and Jeremy were weird in the earlier seasons, one minute they'd be cool, the next minute they'd be at each other's throats. They're too blind by JP's BS after all these years. They believe whatever she tells them, especially if it benefits their ship.

      She was really annoying at the beginning of the season. Freya wasn't really acting like her self. Kind of a lady dick, if you will. That's stupid. I think she's just too incompetent to remember the witch craft, so she's avoiding it. There's no logical reason to limit spells. Exactly. Hayley isn't any better than Klaus. At least he looked after Hope when given the chance.

      Life had been busy the last couple months for me, so I get it. But I think things are slowing down for me, hopefully. I thought the episode was great. Not sure what the bad reviews were about but from what I heard, Grimm's pilot reviews weren't all that great either, so that's what I was pretty much hanging on to.

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    • Yeah I get that comparison. It's very relatable at this point. Lol Keelin's been rather useless this past season. Smh once they had her venom, it was good. Like you can use science in magic. Smh just crappy writing. Not that I'm aware of. There may have been something in a comic con video, but yeah it doesn't make sense why he couldn't just do that. Probably not. Why would any child experience aggression as a teenager... >.> I feel like they ignore more and more stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised. Lol that'd be hilarious, just ignore a species like they do with the crescents. XD I've been slipping on Flash. Arrow, is eh. If nothing else peaks my interest, I'll continue to watch though.

      Lol it rather makes sense right. Someone more talented writes a super amazing character as a ghost writer and immediately after she takes back over, want to redeem him, though Chris loved the character so much, he fought and got his way. I love it! Eh. Idk, it was intentional yes, but the way literally everyone, except Stiles, just blindly believed it... It didn't feel real, especially Scott. I felt like it could have been approached differently. Yeah I oddly remember that. Lol truly evil, serving his and the Dread Doctors plans. What!? Lol some salty people that can't see that. Like Melissa even confirmed that he died. Like that is black and white, no grey, so how do they discredit that?

      That would have been interesting, I think. Probably something like he join them then Lydia got to him and probably help end them lol. Idk. I think I would have rather seen that than some of the plot points that actually happened. I didn't care about the forgetting part, ironically that's somewhat logical, it was everything after she was found that I had and still have issues with. I doubt the final season will change that for me. TW is one of the few shows that don't actually employ resurrection with a supernatural element. I can respect that. Coming from TVD and TO, numerous occasions cheapen death and then you get that expectation of "well they can come back" etc.

      To me that was just typical jock attitude and Jeremy was a loner that liked Vicki, there friendship was one of the more legitimate character/friendship developments. Then again, that was the first few seasons, their peak so, kinda makes sense.

      Lol, learn a new term everyday. Yeah she was a bit over the rails in a few moments, kinda towards the extreme. I agree. That or budget cuts or something. Stuff like that is avoided when they are going out. And JP already screwed over the last two seasons of magic in TVD, so why would TO be different. It's like saying she won't focus on vampires or werewolves, yet it's a supernatural show. If you don't want to do it or limit it, do a different genera. Eh. Yes and no, it depended. There was one moment where Hayley basically demand that Klaus watch over her and she was going to go off into the bayou or whatever. But yeah he basically baby sat all season.

      I rarely ever let reviews make the bulk of a decision for me, especially tv shows. Everyone has an opinion and considering I read the book first, it was hyped to finally see it. And most reviewers keep comparing it to True Blood like by saying, it's not the next True Blood. Lol such a lame review, like TB's been finished, why does MTX have to be the next TB, can't it not be its own show, actually be MTX? I think the ratings speak for itself and I hope that fans will keep that momentum going. I saw a similar comment on spoilertv (?) idr, but yeah Grimm got bad pilot review and look at how it turned out. 5 season worth of episodes and a fan base was was disappointed to see it go. I hope we get an early renewal, especially if the ratings hold.

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    • I'm dying to see how they make her relevant next season. I can't see any reason for Keelin to be around other than being Freya's girlfriend. I honestly didn't even watch the Comic-Con trailer. I just don't care. It wouldn't be all that different from what they do to Klaus. The only time they even show that he's a wolf is when he wants to bite someone. I can see them doing the same to Hope.

      That's why Chris was such an awesome guy. He realized how incredible of a character Kai was, and refused to allow JP to redeem him. That's just awesome. Yeah, from an in-Universe perspective, it made no sense that everyone was just believing Theo. Scott and Stiles have been best friends for their entire lives, and yet Scott believes Theo over Stiles just because reasons. I agree that it could have been approached differently. They talk about how Theo's plan hinged on the DD's plan, which is true, but that doesn't discredit what Theo did. He capitalized off of a plan that was already in motion, a lot of villains do that. He still killed Scott, so it counts.

      When I heard that was the story for Jackson in S3, I was even more excited. But he left the show, so they had to rush to rewrite the script, which is exactly why S3A felt rushed, bc it was. Colton's departure was very last minute. I always thought her joining of the pack was rather fast and rushed, but nothing really bothered me beyond that. I like the werecoyote. I like that they haven't overdone it with the resurrections, but when they do bring someone back, it's to actually service the story, like Peter and Kate.

      I certainly enjoyed the back and forth between Tyler and Jeremy, I was just saying it was odd how often the dynamic of their relationship would change.

      It was like they were trying to have her play Klaus' aggressive role, which doesn't work for Freya. I expect the wolves to be non-existent in S5, and the witches to be very minor. I think it'll focus mostly on vampires, and whatever BS romances JP has planned besides Rope. She clearly doesn't care much for the supernatural aspect, I don't know why she writes for these kinds of shows. Well of course Haley made demands, it's one of her greatest qualities. That, and bringing up that she's Hope's parent.

      I never watch or choose not to watch a show solely based on reviews. Tired of the True Blood comparisons. Just bc it's from the same author, doesn't mean it has to be just like it. Literally, every review I read compared it to TB. Hopefully, the ratings remain steady

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    • I highly doubt that. Their relevant and what should actually be relevant are completely different. That's the only reason. Talk about useless, Keelin has no plot and I read something earlier today on the lines of Freya, in NO didn't know whether to pursue her own happiness or get her family back together. SMH. After EVERYTHING in s4... now she wants to drop family!? Make up your mind. I did because a user was claiming one thing as if it was explicitly confirmed about something and it wasn't. It's Julies wish and plan, "if she's Lucky". Smh Otherwise, never would have watched it lol. still quite sad after all this time, we've yet to see wolf Klaus. Smh.

      JP claimed that cast have no say in their character ending or whatever in the CC video. Wonder if that stems from Chris. XP. Tbh, they should have some say because they are playing the part. If something doesn't feel right then they should stand up. It may be her writing and [blinded] vision, but they bring the characters to life. Not to say they should run the show or run over the cast and crew, but some input imo. That was definitely my issue with the in universe perspective. Lol you can't discredit was Theo accomplish. He flat out killed Scott. Plain and simple!

      I probably would have been an interesting season. Though bts stuff probably was just too much. Will probably never know the true story but things like this, for one reason or another, can and does happen. True. I don't recalled the full details of Peter's but it seemed weird about how Peter was actually brought back. I'll have to rewatch that explanation Deaton gave (I believe he told Derek or Scott), though it didn't seem like magic. Kate turned (and healed, unless I missed something) so I don't much consider her as resurrected. XD

      Oh yeah. It seemed genuine. Friends and "brothers" fight and "make-up" all the time. Tyler and Jeremy grew close and butted heads at time and it was an interesting dynamic on either end.

      Yeah it was just bad with Freya. It was very out of character or it was just extreme circumstance. Considering they will be wrapping things up, I don't see the wolves being apart much if at all. Supposedly there's peace with the witches with Freya and Vincent (I guess they made up after everything that was said in s4) brokered with the other witches. Vampires coming back from Klaus' past. Smh yeah that will be the focus, or their will be a side plot with the witches and Vincent. She clearly needs to go to daytime drama or for hallmark or something. Why write supernatural, if you're going to skip the supernatural element and do romance. LOL she was states that Hope is her daughter. Smh. She makes it out to be that Klaus is refusing her, yet he's the one sacrificing time with her, because of Hayley. So two faced.

      I've been seeing backlash about that comparison on twitter. It's quite hilarious because it's not, nor will it ever be TB. It's it own show and they act like it shouldn't be. Regardless it's also on separate networks, so the content they can show and do will also be different because it's not HBO (but the books weren't even like the sex appeal and whatnot as TB). Tbh it's an absolutely pathetic comparison.

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    • So now they are willing to strip Freya of her characteristics and personality traits even further in the name of Freelin? No surprise. This shouldn't even be a question for Freya. For 1000 years all she wanted was her family. I don't know why its so hard for these users to understand that JP has a lot of wishes and hopes, but nothing has been confirmed, and it probably never will be. Klaus never turning only really bothers me when they let Hayley turn since the excuse was that it wasn't in the budget.

      LOL, it probably does. It's all Chris' fault xD. JP was definitely on the road to redeem Kai, but then suddenly it stopped, thank God for him. They probably do say something, but the writers don't pay them much attention. Just look at DG and Jomo, they've been really outspoken about how they don't like the path their characters have taken, yet nothing has changed. W for Theo. And no amount of hating will change that.

      There's always a side of me that hates knowing stuff like this. It makes you wonder how good the season could have been had everything going as planned. Lydia was immune to the bite, so when Peter bit her, it somehow connected them, which allowed him to guide Lydia to resurrecting him, using the power of an alpha and the full moon. Yeah Kate was much simpler. I guess you could refer to it as her healing while in transition.

      I hope the wolves arent apart of the season. I never thought I would say that about my favorite species but its come to that point. Wow, Vincent has pretty much shitted on Freya a couple times, so i didn't really see a reunion between those two. Interesting. Seriously, more vamps from Klaus' past. How do they not get tired of the repetitiveness? It's clear that they've run out of ideas. It just doesn't make sense to me that she wants to write for Supernatural shows but she doesn't give a damn about the supernatural element. I really wish I could just get into the mind of these writers. Hayley loves to throw the "Hope is my daughter" card but let someone else try it and she's like don't bring Hope into this.

      Nice. I haven't seen the backlash but it's good to know that we aren't the only ones bothered by every review or every post comparing TB to MTX. They're acting like it's a True Blood spin-off. The only similarity is the author of the novels. They are not the same shows.

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    • I can't find the exact article, but one of the last ones I read said "Freya has spent 10 years missing her family, but she's also spent 10 years loving and being loved by Keelin" so sounds like she's not too worried about her family. Yeah she has a lot of wishes but those can't be used as confirmation. It's ridiculous how some users bend over backwards that her word is absolute. Lol It's kinda sad. Yeah I would have hoped way back in S2-3 TVD we would have seen his transformation. People will lose their crap if they don't see it at least once in the final season (and I hope we don't see Hayley's again). Smh Speaking loving the "spoilers" about her. Hope they come true.

      I think to a point it does. There is definitely a push and pull though the writers have a set end goal but overall it doesn't change much. Chris was the exception. The take on the Originals post s1-2 really began to go down hill, and the overarching premise about a miracle baby was bad from the get go. There's a stark contrast to TVD originals and TO originals. I will always remember Theo for killing Scott, so there that. Haters will try to discredit it no matter what, but the truth is evident XD

      I don't remember if I've asked or not, Do you watch Game of Thrones?

      Pulling back the curtain always has some kinda drawback, though knowing what could have been makes for fun fan theories and stuff. Pros and Cons. I guess she's immune because she was already (latent) supernatural. Idk Alpha and a Full moon, makes it seem pretty easy to resurrect any dead alpha because that happened within a month or so right? Yeah makes sense to attribute it to healing in transition.

      Hmm. Idk maybe in passing commentary? Supposedly Freya, Vincent, Hayley and a fourth or Keeling, Idr, are having HoH meetings to keep the peace in NO, per the CC video. If the spoilers are true, then they will be there for the Funeral too. Yeah apparently they've (Freya and Vincent) have learned to work together to keep the peace, that was back in that magazine article about S5. TBH, I don't even know. They just keep throwing the same stuff at us. The same old someone from Klaus' (insert original) past comes back. They revamp it as new and seemingly it's all good, but it's just a rehash of the same things and fans get upset about it. Lol that'd be dangerous. Probably get lost in stupid illogical plotlines and horrible romances. Lol the good ole double standard. Hayley is practically a walking example.

      There were a couple of tweets that shared the articles and fans were disappointed in the comparison. I love to see when the majority of the replies are in opposition XD Exactly. They aren't the same and shouldn't be treated as such.

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    • Smh. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Freya would give up on her family. I'm expecting her to be working 24/7 to create a solution. All I see now is how JP has plans for spin-off. They're talking as if the spin-off is confirmed, which it likely never will be. I came to the conclusion a while ago that we are never going to see his wolf form. But you're right, it should have happened in TVD but it's even sadder that it hasn't happened on his own show. I've never hoped for spoilers to be so true any more than I do right now. RIP Hayley.

      Revolving TO around klaus' redemption, a plothole baby, and an insufferable werewolf girl that no one asked for was certainly the show's downfall. All that, plus the fact that the Mikaelsons really aren't the Mikaelsons anymore, just look at Kol.

      No. I don't watch GoT. I've heard all the hype but I just never got around to giving it a try. Is it as good as people say?

      Reading really good fan theories actually piss me off sometimes XD. Reading it and then realizing how great that would have been to see on screen really gets at me. Yeah, it was because she was a banshee. No, I'm not saying it was as simple as and Alpha and a full moon, those are just a couple of the more notable steps. I don't believe its that easy. There was a lot of preparation and planning on Peter and Lydia end.

      If it's for the greater good, and it means peace for NOLA, then I can see Vincent making peace with Freya. And it's not like she has a thousand years worth of enemies, so he doesn't have to worry about her drawing in any real trouble. But why is Freya even involved in the peace making? I don't see the witches listening to a Mikaelson. This is why the Hollow was a good concept. She wasn't an enemy from the past. She was someone new to them, but they screwed up by making it all about Hayley and Hope. Not to mention Inadu was boring trash but the concept was good nonetheless. I'm still pissed that they screwed up werewolf origin, like I knew they would. Which is exactly why I didn't want them to address it anymore.

      Hopefully, as MTX progresses, the comparisons will stop.

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    • Lol she spent all of a week (?) wanting to take down Marcel... yet it's going to take upward of 10 years for her family. Ugh. I know. Well at CC from the sound of it, it wasn't even on paper, just JP's head. I Hope it doesn't. I don't think I could sit through it. She's literally take the supernatural element out of it and it would be boring boarding house/school drama. Smh It needs to happen once. At this point, I wouldn't even care, if it was the final scene, Klaus is presumed dead, and the last bit we see a wolf staying back at us on screen before it scampered off lol. I'd take that over not seeing it at all. I hope it true. I guess, if I have to deal with Caroline, it's better than Hayley.

      Less with TO for the reasons you mentioned. I definitely think JP favored actors (if they're pretty or she's living through them) and such, especially the ones that didn't oppose what she wanted.

      Most definitely. If you can get around a few concepts, it's a very intriguing show. There like 10 episodes a season, so take a weekend and binge s1. Imo, you wont be disappointed!

      I get that. I get get upset too, though at this point, I'm not going to find the plotholes and missed opportunities. It's definitely went downhill and it's not gotten any better. I've read a few review for 6x11 and I honestly don't know if I'll watch it. Not really feeling motivated. More or less easy if someone was willing to do it. Peter prepped Lydia though she didn't really understand what or why she was doing things. So yeah, a lot for him, though seems like something that was willing assisting him could have done it. That was my point on that. I don't remember the other requirements but those two are what I remember without investigating futher.

      Me too. She'd be a powerful ally though after all the smack talk, seems like it's more of an understanding. No I don't guess. Assuming it's proportional, half the vampire population is dead, including those that would have known about Freya, save Klaus' broken line. I don't either, she'd still be an outsider really. Though who knows. At this point NO is more of her home than anywhere else. Lol they've actually had a few good concepts, they just don't amount to much. It should have just been related to NO specifically, they had to force the plot to make Hayley relevant.

      I've seen less with Episode two. So I hope so too.

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    • Don't even think it was a week. I'm still amazed at how easy they made it to kill Marcel. Smh. And now there's talk about JP being in talks with the network about the spin off. I refuse to believe anyone is dumb enough to give her another spin off, especially when the current one sucks. That's what I fear. The supernatural aspect will be less and less relevant to the story. I could see the school becoming the focus. That's actually not bad, I wouldn't mind seeing Klaus in his wolf form during the final scene. Caroline is only slightly better than Hayley. I'll take it tho.

      I know for a fact she favors actors, like Ian and Candice. Without a doubt.

      It's been one watch list for the longest. I'll have to try to get to it soon.

      6x11 is decent. I get not feeling motivated to watch. I wasn't feeling it either before they released those promos. All the character returns is what got me. Apparently, the the ritual or whatever had to be completed by the second full moon after his death. And Peter has to be surrounded by wolfsbane. So I guess it mainly was the the full moon and Alpha spark, with a few details in between.

      Understanding is probably a better word to use. I doubt they're going to be partying it up together next season. I just don't see why the witch community would give a damn about what she has to say. And Freya doesn't really have anyone there other than Keelin, who doesn't really count bc she'd follow Freya into a volcano. They could go anywhere. Its like they screwed it up when they start to add details to what was originally a good idea.

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    • It's probably a gross over estimation. It was literally like the next episode after she got the venom. So probably like 24 hours, max. Lol, took a thousand year to craft the spell to turn him into that, yet a weapon to kill him was made in 24. Smh seems ridiculous considering Freya will spend 10 years trying to solve this problem. EW! I saw Shae's comment about that. Smh. It's still just a "thought" and I hope it wont happen for at least 10 years, according to this article. I don't understand how they can hand her another show. She just needs to leave and not write another show, let alone a supernatural show. It's a bit cynical on my part, but I could see it happening, a big middle finger to the face that fan's have been asking for it for a number of years and we'll get it for all of 5 secs. Some shows would actually benefit from listening to their fans though some show runners refuse to or actively go against what a majority of fans want to see, i.e we want Klaus, they give use Hayley.

      Just like she throws Kat under the bus and craps on her character. She should learn to control her bias and write a good show without focusing on the stupid things or "living through them" like a fan girl/shipper wannabe.

      Dude, take a weekend, a Saturday morning and start episode one. Before you know it, you'd be 3 seasons in, sleep deprived and wondering why it's already Monday. It's terrible addictive! XD

      Hmm. I wasn't impressed with the major plot points that I found summarized on a review. I liked the season promos, but I don't expect to see too much of that in the first episode coming back. Between other things, I've downloaded it, though just had time to watch it. I may wait a couple episodes out and watch 3-4 at a time. I start back to class in two weeks, so idk, may do it as a last hurrah thing. Idk. hopefully I wont be too busy, because I don't want to give up editing MTX. Lol "second" just seems completely random to me. Not the first, not the third... the second. I need to read up on this. Is it magic, is it not. Why or how does this even work to "resurrect" someone... I don't recall them going into too much detail about it though.

      No, I doubt that either. Maybe tolerate... i.e. I haven't for you, but if you're going to stay, might as well as make the best of a bad situation, type of thing. I don't see why they would either. She has no allegiance to them and they're fractured as it is with the Hollow's influence. Seems like a "Mikaelson" would make it worse. LOL, she would, and they could. Though apparently she needs 10 years to examine the Hollow's magic. Smh doesn't make any sense to me.

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    • The power of plot convenience. What took a millennium to create can be taken down in 24 hours. Nothing to be questioned there. Why don't her and Keelin team back up that so their oh so powerful magic and science combination can solve their crisis like before? Her Hollow problems could be solved in just a mere day. Maybe in ten years this spin off won't be so ridiculous but by then it'll have to revolved around a whole new cast bc everyone now will look too old, and they'd need a real showrunner. Not JP. They do it for Hayley. There nothing stopping them from showing Klaus'. Hopefully, all these years of us bitching about Hayley has actually paid off.

      Precisely. There's a reason most of TVD's cast wont come back. JP seems to be the common denominator. I loved Kat's answer when asked if she'd be on TO. She wanted no parts of that lol.

      Alright. It's official. I'll make sure I at least watch the first episode of GoT this weekend. That's all I can guarantee.

      I liked the fact that they were bringing back the hunters. Wasn't necessary impressive or flashy but I just like badass humans. I actually know somebody else that's doing the same thing. They're gonna binge watch. Good luck with classes. I also found the second full moon to be odd. Why not the first? S2 was my favorite season but I havent watched it in a while, so I don't remember all that was said.

      I've already come to the conclusion that nothing Freelin does next season will make sense. It is the writers job to prove otherwise, but I know they won't.

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    • It is mighty indeed. Lol Because Freya is taking a really long "Me Day"... and works when convenient for her now... I betcha we will see Freya and Keelin out having a coffee or something in the premiere. Lol that was Nina's answer about coming back for the Originals, she was too old and I quote, "I don’t think I could play a vampire," let alone waiting 10 years for a spin-off. By then they will have to focus on the children or random new people. I'm skeptical. I can see them killing her off, but will she really stay dead... I mean the Hollow resurrected Dominic. Frankly I really hope we see her death though, something along the lines of Gia's. That would be satisfying to see with Hayley.

      Lol Kat was savage with that answer. I wonder if it's still around. I'll have to go look for it later. I'd love to see her on the Originals, apart of her Traveling and stuff, though at the expense of her character with JP, I'm good how it ended and hopefully with Caroline/Alaric making appearances, JP wont screw her over one last time. Speaking of. I asked Monica about origins of species. Turi answered, though it was more a direct response of a certain character, I.e. Lem's origins in the next episode 3.

      Lol okay. That's a start. Let me know what you think.

      Humans that can handle themselves, in a logical and thoughtful way, in a supernatural environment is indeed pretty cool. But it's got to make sense. Yeah I'll probably do every couple of episodes, if I can afford the time. And Thanks, you too. I assume you're taking classes in some fashion? Season two was my favorite season with s1 and 3b (because of Stiles) are also on my list.

      Lol they don't make a lot of sense on a lot of things they do.

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    • Now you got me thinking that you read the script for the premiere bc Freelin date night sounds really accurate. They probably have a nice place together, with a dog. Yep. At least she realizes how ridiculous it all sounds. You can't play a vampire forever. You know me, I'm all for Tyler knocking some chick up before getting killed, and Lockwood Jr coming to finish off Damon. That could be the start of our new of the new spin-off. That's a concern of mine as well. There's no way the Hollow should've been able to bring back Dominic. I just hope they kill Hayley and keep her dead.

      I'm sure it is still around. It was funny. It's clear she didn't appreciate Bonnie's treatment by that answer. I wouldn't put it past JP to bring Bonnie over to TO, just to kill her. She needs to stay away. Alright but we've known it since the episode title was released but still something to look forward to.

      As promised, I watched the first episode. I thought it was amazing. Clueless on a lot of the terms and characters but still a great watch. I think I'll continue to watch as I find time. I really like the beginning with the white walkers?

      Yes. Keyword being logical. They just pulled some bs in the premiere of TW with a human taking down a way to powerful creature. I won't spoil it but like I said, it's bs. Give me a skilled fighter, who's crafty and good with weapons, and I'm cool. Nope. No classes just working. Saving up money. Seems that everyone loves 3B.

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    • Nah I'm not privy to such things, though if I was, JP would certainly have an earful from me on how to change the show in all the right ways, first off shipping Hope off and to freaking focus on the Originals. Though that ship sailed ages ago. Would you really come back to TVD if Tyler had a secret love child? Well the way they portray Hope, anything is possible. Smh I hope she remains dead. Dominic was cool and his resurrection was only to boast about the Hollow's power, although it shouldn't have worked (or they cut some details that should have been known).

      Not dismissing the possibility entirely, though I'd think it's safe to say that she's good. No one other than Klaus or possibly Elijah/Hayley knows about Bonnie so there wouldn't even be mention or whatever. JP can't hurt her anymore without going completely out of her way -- unless there's some comment from Caroline or Alaric. I really liked Lemuel's origins. I still want to know about how the different species came about but his was really well done.

      There's still stuff that I miss or clueless about, probably just because it's a big world and there are a bunch of characters and different story lines. I'm glad you liked it though. Yup, white walkers, I love them. They are a "myth" to most, though much later, s6 I think their origins are explored and they are this looming threat. They are on the move in s6-7 though.

      That's cool. I work full time and take a class a semester, working towards my Master's degree. Should be finished next fall. :) I broke down and watched it. My brother insisted that he wanted to watch episode two and I didn't so I had to watch the premiere (and ep 2). The new hunter and Hellhound? That didn't make any sense to me. Smh. Bad, bad plot right there, though given the trailers, it makes me wonder if he's really dead or if it's the faceless later on. Speaking of... Olivia, when she fought Pia, Pia was only a vampire of, if the timeline is current i.e. 2017, of about 40 years. --Scratch that she was turned in 1888, New Years eve. Considering we don't know how a vampire's strength works, in regards to Lemuel and Zachariah, she was a baby.

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    • There's a large amount of the fan base that would love to give JP an earful. Myself included. Getting Hope out of town and off the screen was always the best solution. They should have stuck with that. Of course not, especially not under JP's control. TVDverse is done but I would watch Damon's death over and over and over again. To me, resurrecting Dominic isn't even a show of power. It's a show of the writers' incompetence and inconsistency.

      Bonnie's only safe for as long as Kat agrees to stay away. Coming back would surely be a death sentence for Bonnie. The final ultimate sacrifice. The Martyr sacrificing her life once more. As did I, though I wish they would have been more specific with the time frame. We still don't know what year Lemuel was turned. As for the origin of species, I'm hoping for that in S2. Zach mentioned how he and Lem were going to party like it's 1959, I'm guessing that's when they were in midnight but they could've specified a little more.

      Yeah, I was a bit surprised by all the different stories and how each took place in different locations. I haven't had time to watch any more episodes yet but I certainly plan on it, especially after how the first episode ended.

      Master's degree? Sounds like someone has big plans. Hope all goes well. Yep. The new rookie hunter, who is so new that she thought silver could kill werewolves vs what is supposed to be an OP Hellhound. There's nothing they can say that would explain how she managed to kill him. When they first introduced Parrish, he was unstoppable. But I do think he'll appear later on. That's also something I look forward to, seeing how vampires strength range from age. I think the Pia vs Olivia fight was a little more believable. It was quick. Olivia tripped her and then staked her

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    • Lol there's at least salty shippers that would. XD The repetitive poor writing and plot is on my list. They ship her off every chance they get. They should have kept it that way. I still can't believe they would even consider let JP making another spinoff. The ideal alone is preposterous. I concur, the writers' incompetence on that part was just stupid.

      True, though I believe she's done. I don't even think she would guest star. After all this time, if she did come back only to die, I wouldn't even come back. I wouldn't see her doing it for Hope. It's too unbelievable.

      It would have been just simple enough to add a date during the flashback or something. That would have been easy. I hope we get some more origin info and background with the characters. I'd go with that. I'd have to rewatch it to double check but the context seemed to be in regards to the restaurant or something. I think by episode 10 we will know more about Midnight.

      There are a lot of storylines but its all well worth it imo. I even convinced my brother to star watching it Lol.

      Yup :) Even maybe even PhD who knows. Thanks. I really didn't like that scene. It didn't make sense to me. Even wounded, he should have snapped her neck. Smh. I think he will too. Maybe he's not dead and he just needs time to recover or something. Well vampires are fast but not invincible so with her it was more believable but then again, Olivia is a trained assassin. We don't know if Pia had any fighting skills. I have to say the hill to kill her was pretty cool.

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    • The salty shippers do that every other day on Twitter. I'm pretty sure she's used to that by now. JP needs an intellectual earful. I still refuse to believe that anyone is dumb enough to even consider another spin-off. TVD ratings took a nose dive season after season once JP took over. And TO is a failure. There's no way another spin-off would be a success. Hope's already on TO, and that hasn't changed anything. A show about her would flop.

      She's obviously done. I don't think anything could convince Kat to come back. Not to mention, I see no reason for Bonnie to even cross over. She doesn't care about any of them.

      That's exactly what I mean. Just added some text at the bottom of the screen during the flashback. Location and year, or even just the year would've been good enough. Yeah, it was just after he asked Lem about the old hotel and Home Cookin.

      I would hope so with all the hype around it. Must be incredible as the show progresses.

      It was such a bs fight and poorly written scene. Parrish was able to take out 3 Chimeras with varying abilities at the same time, yet Halwyn, who is much older and would probably be more experienced, can't beat rookie Hunter? I think not. I agree the heal kill was cool. I hope they plan on addressing her fighting abilities, how she acquired them.

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    • There's a chance... for whatever reason the CW loves JP. Smh. We don't need a stupid spinoff that will just be "highschool/boarding house" drama. Ugh, just thinking about it is horrible enough.

      If it was sole about her and Hayley. I can only dream of the abysmal ratings. It would be canceled after the premiere... but I guarantee you that she'll sneak in a "pilot" episode of something on TO. Just you watch...

      She really don't. The plot wouldn't make sense and Kat is moving on, (others should too). Bonnie is finished with vampire business and living for herself for now on. OKay cool.

      Yup. The Hype is REAL with GoT. Sadly after a short s7, we only have a short s8 and the series will be over. :(

      Now that I think about it, I don't think they elaborate on that in the books. I know of her first kill, that's interesting and I hope we get more back story about that with a season two XD.

      Ugh. Been busy of late. I'll be busy tomorrow to, but I'll see what summaries I can get to before/on Monday.

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    • I find it hard to believe that anyone at the CW is that stupid. There's no money here. You'd have to pay me to watch that. I'm just done with the TVDverse in general. TO S5 could get scrapped right now and I wouldn't care. There's just nothing left to look forward to

      Correction: The spin off would solely be about Hayley, Hope, and Caroline. No way JP wouldn't throw her favorite character into the mix. Regardless, the show would be trash, as would the ratings.

      That's disappointing to her but from what I've been seeing, S7 of GOT hasn't been all that good. A lot of negative reviews.

      That's what I'm hoping for as well. You don't get randomly acquire the type of skill Olivia seems to have.She trained somewhere or with someone.

      I get it. I often get on in between breaks just to see what I can edit and get done.

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    • Lol that would be a dream come true, solving more problems then creating with another season or another spinoff.

      I've not looked much at the review. It's still getting decent ratings like 9-10mil views an episode. There are more inconsistencies without source material I've heard, but HBO has the end and major plots are going.

      They didn't elaborate in the books. Seems like she's self taught but that could just be poor interpretation on my part. I really want to see a season two and focus more on her and a couple other characters.

      I didn't me to lapse this long. Hectic schedule with work and class atm. Also Futon Critic is also reporting the same with the scheduling.

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    • Whatever TO has planned for their fifth and final season, I just hope that its better than S4 of TO and S8 of TVD. Now the bar isn't set high at all for this. But I know they're still gonna fail.... Unless they really do kill Hayley permanently. Then I don't give a damn what they do the rest of the season bc that one moment would just be heaven

      I've noticed the great ratings as well. That's actually one of the complaints I've seen. They've run out of source material, resulting in a less than par season. But I'll judge for myself.

      Even though I knew it was highly unlikely, I was kinda hoping for a renewal by now. I still have faith though.

      No worries. I barely have enough time to even watch a little bit of TV these days. Thank god for weekends. Damn. That is very inconvenient for us editors. Why even do that?

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    • That's asking for a lot of hope, my friend. Then again the bar is practically on the ground so... If Hayley actually dies, and stays dead, I'll dubbed it the best season of TO XD.

      Yeah, the ratings have been rating. It's a cult phenomenon but without the source material, many feel, that's where the biggest issue lies though that won't be correct for the final season. GRRM I probably the slowest writer ever!

      Yeah 7 episodes in, out of 10, I would have thought we would have known something. I haven't really seen anything from NBC or from Monica/David. Based on the source material, they've set a few things up for S2 so I hope we will find out on the finale, like new episodes XX season/year. If I remember correctly Emerald City found out relatively soon after? I'll have to double check and see when they announced their cancellation and see what kinda time frame we may have to wait.

      Speaking of the weekend, I'll be unavailable for large edits most of this weekend (Sunday afternoon/evening may be okay), and probably the next too. I'll be out of town this weekend and school related the next in prep for a midterm on the 18th (a nice way to end Monday with the Finale!). I'll see what I can do in between though. Yeah, it will be quite a pinch in lieu of the finale, though summaries can lapse until after the finale. It's not absolutely necessary to finish it prior (though it's been nice). If we had a couple more dedicated editors, it would be easier to maintain. Given the lateness of this message, I'm sure you've seen Shae's response to this and the link I posted for the date change.

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    • With JP running the show, it's becomes slightly more possible that Hayley dies. One of the first things I said after it was announced that JP was taking over is that one good thing could come from this. We dont know how she feels about Hayley. They might kill her off.

      I'm on ep 4 now. Haven't had much time for it, but I'm enjoying it so far. Just looked him up. He's kinda old, so I'll cut him a break. Maybe he takes a lot of naps in between, who knows.

      NBC has been suspiciously quiet. But there's no way they aren't seeing all the great buzz and reviews. They have to see how passionate these fans are. I'm more confident now for a renewal than I was a few months ago. There's been a lot of positive feedback despite the initial iffy pilot reviews. Emerald City's finale was on March 3rd. News of cancellation was released on May 5th, so basically a 2 month wait. Not that bad.

      Don't worry about it. We got all the time in the world, especially with the season almost over. We all get busy. I didn't even finish Creek's summary from 1x06 until after 1x07 airs. Busy week, so trust me I get it. And I agree. It has been nice getting the summaries done before the next episode airs, but its not a necessity. I was hoping for more users by now. I honestly don't get how the TVD wiki did it. Some years ago, that wiki was like no other. the community was incredible. But of course A LOT of people left with TVD became trash. They crippled the wiki when they crippled TVD.

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    • That was one of the only things I rather liked from the rumors and such, though idk if Caroline coming is any better. She lives through her, so she'll probably be given this outrageous role or what not. Also there was a tweet from JP how she wants to write in the twins, but as of their current episodes, she hasn't done it yet (so roughly out of 5 episodes so far). I've also heard rumors that like episode 8 or something is/may be the back door pilot to the spinoff. Smh. She needs to let it die and bury it 6ft under.

      Lol maybe. He's probably just a slow writer. Everyone finds inspiration in different places, though he does like to tragically and senseless kill off people so who knows where he finds the inspiration to write.

      NBC is annoying the crap out of me. Some things I read they are optimistic because the ratings are steady and good as a summer show, which prompts a likely renewal, then others are horrible (still comparing it to TB) and says that there's not a good plot/story, to many characters to get through and poor acting. Like Idk some of these reviews are just stupid and feel like they are extremely biased. Like if I was writing a review on a documentary, it probably wouldn't be as good as something that really enjoys them. I watched all the episodes of EC, except the finale. Idk why I missed it but since it was canceled I may never finish it, plus it's been a while since it ended. 2 months isn't that bad. I hope we know soon though. Given that NBC was so quiet before hand, it's still iffy for me. Some of the reviews claimed that NBC didn't have faith in the show since it was moved from spring to summer and it was only ordered as a 10 episode show. Then again NBC's The Night Shift is a summer show that averages 11 episodes a season and they are on their 4th season.

      Yeah, true. I'm not worrying too much about it. I would like to at least get Manfred's done tonight for 106 so I'll be somewhat caught up, with just this week's two episodes behind. Yeah idk, I was hoping for more regular users as well. I mean even if we had 1 or 2 that could help with summaries, as a whole, that would be very helpful. Idk how TVD wiki did it either. I wished I had been around during it's inception, though I came later, as an anon and then eventually as a registered user. OA did a survey and these were the results. Feedback indicates that there aren't enough edits and the ones who took it wanted like character updates and stuff. Idk with TVD finished and TO on it's way out, character articles will like never be finished, just the major character, some are even lacking for seasons 7, let alone the last season. Bonnie's only got finished because I was the one doing them. TO only like Kol's are finished because another user has an interest in his. Tbh TVD has been crippled for a while, but it's just more apparent now. Without AWCs it really seems vacant even though there are a bunch of new accounts being made daily. I've not been as active there lately. I've not been motivated. At least here, there's active episodes and stuff to contribute towards and even when it finishes (and we wait to hear about renewal) we can create more pages, relationships, minor actors page, objects and stuff. Update the locations (I've mostly ignored them for the large part), or create the veil or limbo, etc. events that take place.... idk but at least it's fresh and I can generally edit anything here. TVD, I have my area that I enjoy editing, and the other majority of articles, its mostly maintenance, formatting and etc.

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    • This has always been challenging for me, but Caroline is slightly better than Hayley. She's not as intolerable as Hayley, but still in tolerable nonetheless. I'm sure Caroline will be thrown into the story in an absurd manner, but it can't be any worse than Hayley and the Crescents. At least I hope its not. I haven't heard any plans about a backdoor pilot but then again, I haven't followed TO at all during this season's production. I still refuse to believe that anyone at the CW is willing to give JP another TVD spin off.

      Look how fast things can change. Last time I replied to this thread, we had steady raitings, now the're steadily declining. I'm a bit concerned. I've stopped reading the reviews recently. I can judge for myself. I think the show's awesome, and I'm not sure how anyone could still compare it to TB, but I'm leaving it at that. They're literally dedicating episodes to specific characters in order for us to know them better. The story is moving along. No fillers. Everything is going well. I feel some people were expecting something else, and now they're just pissy that they didn't get what they wanted from MTX.

      A couple regular editors would be great. It would give me more time to get other things done. These summaries can be hell sometimes. I'm not quite sure how they did it either. I was around when the wiki was in its prime. It was just a great time to be there. So much activity it was impossible to keep up, but clueless as to how they pulled it off. Maybe just a strong online presence. We know for a fact that TVD had one of the largest online fan bases once upon a time. I took the survey. Can't remember what I put though. I say blame the writers for the wiki falling behind. Pages aren't being updated bc there aren't enough users. There aren't enough users bc people left after quitting the show. People quit the show bc it became trash. I'm not saying every users that has left is the writers' fault, but I'm certain they're responsible for a vast majority of it. The lack of motivation to edit for users that are still around likely comes from lack of interest in the show. Its just not as good. If you can only just barely watch it, you damn sure don't want to write for it.

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    • I've not heard much. Supposedly it will come after the midpoint of the season. I think I saw around episode 8, but Idk. On Twitter, JP wants to write in the twins, but as of ~ep 5 where they are likely at currently, she hasn't. So that is probably with the backdoor thing will come in. Nobody wants to see Hope and yet, they keep shoving her in our eyes, and I really don't care to see the daycare diaries. Smh

      Yeah. I'm trying not to think too much about it. Ratings are in and the season is over, so it's in NBC's hands now. Given the number of episodes we've had, I'm very satisfied. Got majority of individual back stories with amazing plot along the way. No Fillers is a huge plus for me. Everything was connected and no real BS shots of "well, what do we do/make of that" kinda crap. I get the same feeling. I think they just wanted it to be another version of TB, when it's not. It may be in the same "universe" but, there is nothing else other than who wrote it. It's an adaptation of a book and people can't seem to make an informed decision for themselves without TB. Maybe because I've never read the books and only watch the witch season (which from my understanding is still vastly different compared to MTX), but come on... people need a little more common sense then that.

      Yeah. It would be great. I've been swamped of late. Work and class has been killer atm. Just a lot going on so extra editors would be great, but it doesn't really matter. Pace yourself, there's no real rush to accomplish such summaries. I've accepted that. I guess users were just more involved, Idk but yeah I see your point. Makes sense too. Must users just don't care about it anymore and most of the remaining ones, from what I can tell, are doing it out of obligation from watching it since the beginning. TVD was (still is?) top 40 wikis or whatever with Fandom.

      Maybe if we're renewed, we'll pull in more users, at least that's a hope of mine. That's been a main focus of mine about joining wikis I'm on the fence about. Will it last (past it's first or second season) has been a main thing I've considered because I didn't want to get involved only for it to end. Idk maybe I should have looked at it for the fun of it but I didn't. MTX has real potential and with the declining supernatural tv market I felt like it would (or should) be a hit.

      I'll admit it, I'm not as motivated to edit much anymore (partly because I'm here more & I've updated almost all of what I like to actually edit). Mostly now, it's clean up, revisions, images, etc. The really only character I like to edit was Bonnie and there are a couple for TO, but other than that, I don't much care for the rest. I whole heartedly agree. With as many plot-hole and inconsistencies, it's just a mess and writing about it isn't like it used to be.

      Edit: So I've heard... and read, that a Sabrina spinoff is in the works XD That's exciting new!

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    • I currently have no plans on watching S5, let alone the spin off. Which I still doubt will be picked up. There's no money in doing so. As for TO, there's not one thing I can pick out of anything TO related that I want to see. So I can't think of any reason to keep watching. This is the first season Ive felt this way about

      Exactly. Its hard to get to everything with 10 episodes. That's not long enough to keep the story pushing, and address every character's background thourougly, so the fact that they managed to do what they could with what they were given is impressive. I only watch TB occasionally. I've seen a handful of episode. Wasnt all that great if you ask me, but that's what it seems like people were expecting with MTX, and bc they didn't get that, they're bitter towards the show.

      I've been quite busy as well between the RD wiki and life general. Yeah, I've definitely slowed down on the summaries in recent days, but I at least wanted to make sure I got the plots done, which they are. Really? Didnt know that TVD was still ranked that high. I'm surprised that many people still visit.

      That would be nice. I could see a renewal bringing in more editors. I know some people don't even watch a show until it is renewed or confirmed to have more than one season. Hopefully, that can bring more people in to edit, taking some of the work off us. But the supernatural genre always falls, and then its back up again. Its practically a roller coaster. I'm just waiting for it to get back up

      Nothing to be ashamed of. It seems like very few are motiviated these days as far as the TVDverse is concerned. I stopped editing a lot once TVD became trash, so around S4-S5 would be my guess. I reliazed that it started to feel like a chore. The only thing worse than watching a poorly written show, is having to write it youself. It became boring and not worth my time.

      That was amazing news. The showrunner has talked about potential spin offs in the past, but nothing was in the works. I was not expecting a spin off to be in development before S2 even airs. That's amazing. And then they chose the best character to center the show around. I feel like this has the potential to be a great show. I love that they're going the supernatural route. With the introduction of this series, I'm even seeing people refer to it as 'Riververse'.

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    • I'll watch it out of obligation. That and to help resolve issues, etc. With JP in charge, she's already said, maximum one spell an episode, if that. Smh. Two main character, well a third with Hope are witches and you don't want magic/spells. I can't blame you. It's hit bottom, hard.

      I was impressed. And what we did see were just snapshots of their lives. I mean Joe and Chuy alone, there's so much more to tell. Fiji had at least three years with Mildred, Lemuel 100-200 years before Midnight and the Rev's younger self filled with killing, etc... Then there's Olivia for season two. I wasn't much of a TB fan. They introduced witches and that drew me in, but in the end, there were some points that I wasn't impressed with, others okay though. I literally just saw a finale review and they are still comparing it to TB. I guess since they advertised the show as the "Author that brought you TB" etc... idk bitter people shouldn't write for it. Their opinion is already biased.

      I've visited a couple time here and there. S2 premiere in about ~2 weeks. The Wiki looks good! Yeah. I've been busy too. I'm hoping to get back to writing summaries towards the end of the week. I may have to break up the summaries into several edits because the length of time it takes me to write the long/in-depth ones pushes over an hour already (usually because I rewatch the episode as I go). Speaking of, given the length of text, do you want to format the pages with scrolls? Lol don't quote me on that. I don't know but according to CC Wiki Hub, there's at least 100+ contributions lol. Stats indicate 136 in the last month.

      I hope so. Kinda dead around here. By comparison, stats here is 17 users in the last month. I'm getting to be more like that. Then again, there's no quarentee that a show will be renewed after the 2nd or 3rd season, but minimum 2 for me. I think the supernatural genera will be in a lull for a while. The show Supernatural has just gotten ridiculous and they killed off several favorites last season, doubtful I'll continue in light of that. Loads others had gone off or going off. With the Sabrina spinoff in development, I'm doubtful that they will actually do a Charmed reboot Although originally Buffy and Charmed aired on the same network at the same time, so I don't see why Sabrina and Charmed couldn't work. Both shows would draw back the 90's kids that watched them growing up, myself included.

      Writing for it, in some aspects is worse, because you have to write about the inconsistencies and glaring plot holes and attempt to make it seem okay, when it's horribly wrong. It's frustrating and it's supposed to be "fun" but that's what the writers have turned this show into -cringe-worthy at best.

      I'm not really surprised, they want to capitalize on Riverdale's success. They will probably have a couple "magical" (related) episodes to introduce Sabrina and if those episodes are a hit, they will probably officially pick up the spinoff for a debut season in 2018. I like "Riververse". Who knows with the introduction of Sabrina, you may find me over there editing ;) We'll see. Two wikis, currently, is enough for me to handle with other things going on. I'll have to at least visit more often to see what news is released!

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    • I watched S8 out of obligation, but even then, I never felt like this towards its fianl season. As much as I knew that 'The Armory Monster' was going to be a flop, it was still something to wonder about. There's nothing that makes me want to watch S5. Its gonna be a mega wreck.

      s much as I like the supernatural genre, TB just wasn't for me. Hopefully, if the show is renewed, it will continue to progress, allowing it to detach itself from TB, even though it had no real attachments at all to begin with.

      Thanks! The feedback about the new deisng has been positive. Everyone seems to prefer it. I too hope to get a couple more summaries done this week, but I have no idea if I'll be able to with the RD wiki becoming more active, and the upcoming premiere. I say lets wait to see if we get a 2nd season before adding scrolls. Scroll seems rather pointless if there's only a season's worth of information. Makes me wonder what kind of numbers the wiki was pulling in its prime.

      At least yall only got one more season of having to write plot holes and inconsistencies, and overall just a poor story. I know how aggravating that can be.

      I'm only surprised by the time. Pleasantly surprised though. This is soon af. The ratings may not be all that great but they got like 7 awards. I forget the specifics, but thats pretty noteworthy. I hope they keep her around for a couple episodes on RD, but I don't want anything too wild. I'm hoping for a supernatural undertone that'll lead us into the the spin off. Yeah. They've said that they're eyeing the spin off to air alongside RD for the 2018-2019 schedule. I hope this pulls through, which I'm sure it will. Lol, looks like you've already made your way over. I've noticed a increase in users lately. The RD wiki is picking up.

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    • S5 is obligation for me. And all the witchy shenanigans. Hopefully they will have some good ones though. Yeah I agree. If the spoilers are true we will at least have that as a positive thing for the final season. XD

      Season two could very well introduce a TB character though Lol. It will be interesting how they approach that from the book's perspective into the adaption, that is if they do it at all. I personally like the detachment. The connection, while reading the books, was brief in regards to Sookie, so I can see them disregarding it and keeping a similar character. They've already adapted Melanie Pratt and Albany Worldwide (from their book counterparts; I forget her book name, but the company was "Magic Portal").

      Yeah. Fall premieres will be starting in the next couple weeks and that, hopefully will draw more contributors to RD Wiki. That was my assumption as well, though given a couple incidences elsewhere, I thought I'd get your opinion on the matter. Considering a renewal hasn't been announce, having the season long summaries seem okay.

      Lol I've not wrote a summary since TO ended. Freya's was probably one of the last I wrote, and before that Bonnie's S8. Currently I'm cleaning up links and pages, more or less. Once MT's summaries are finished I may go back to TO and write some

      Yeah I briefly scanned the ratings, seemed low for The CW but if it's award winning that seems to trump ratings or at least doesn't matter as much. Look at Crazy Ex-Girlfriend lol. I'd like to see her a quarter of the season, as a recurring character. I've not heard anything about casting of Sabrina, other than Dove Cameron as a fan favorite for the role. I also saw on twitter that they are now casting for The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, so maybe that is for a tie in episode and maybe they will make their way over to Greendale XD I do too. Lol yea I came over for Sabrina, once she appears, I'll probably edit more. For now I'll just help out with the minor things (I think that's probably all the time I have for it). Riverdale, per se, isn't my typical genera to watch, but it took me by surprise. I like the dark undertones.

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    • Fingers crossed for Hayley's death. I'll watch for that episode.

      That's actually a question I saw a lot of people asking when MTX was first ordered; would there be crossovers with TB characters. I like that they're separate universes. Less comparisons for the bitter viewers to make. Lol Magic Portal? Very subtle.

      Its already started to bring in more users. Hopefully, that'll continue once the season actually begins. I was looking at the Quick Stats for the RD wiki a while ago, and noticed we're averaging about 20k views a day. People are clearly interested in the wiki. With all that I have going on, I wanna at least try to keep it as updated as possible. I'm sure there will be a significant increase in views once the season starts.

      The network and the showrunner have admitted that they expected higher numbers for RD, but the awards sure as hell make up for it. As long as the show keeps getting renewed, and the spin off happens, I don't care how they do it. I'd like to see Sabrina earlier on, but I have a feeling that she won't come until the 2nd half, or the very end of the first half. I'm not putting much thought into Dove. They obviously haven't cast Sabrina yet. As you know, it isn't my genre either. I had no plans on watching the show at first. Then, a couple months before it aired, Shae posted a link to a couple of the trailers. The dark undertones were present, so I gave it a chance, and I liked it more than I thought I would. The writing is consistent and balanced.

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    • Lol Right. Highest rated episode.

      I'd rather not have any crossovers as well. It just doesn't fit well imo. It's also kinda ironic that several cast members here have already started in TB, Peter for and Christopher for example. I'd be fine, if they just left out the connection. Lol Magic Portal is an Internet company, and the reason why Midnight has such great internet, for being a secluded "ghost-town".

      A day. Wow that's impressive. I think when MTX was airing, we had 9k or so at one point, down to 3.4 on avg now. It will. Hopefully more users will help edit as well. Do you think the important pages will be completely finished by next Wednseday's air date? JW.

      The awards compensate for that. If they continue, then it will be good. Or it may end up like CEG and get pushed to spring. Seems like it will be fine though. She'll probably make some sort of unofficial appearance for the winter/mid-season final and like you said, bring her in for the second half if they haven't already found their actress to portray her. I figured it would have just been a filler show for me, if nothing else was on, it could be bkg noise for me, but I actually got interested in it. A wonderful surprise. Knock on wood it stays consistent. They've got a good showrunner, managing 10 shows currently on network tv so seems like he's managing them all well to keep them decent! :)

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    • You would think that this would be enough to put an end to any crossover theories; the fact that several of the actors/actress from TB are now on MTX portraying different characters. It just can't happen.

      I thought so as well, especially pulling those kinds of numbers during the off season. RD undoubtedly has a massive online presence. I think we can get all the episode plots finished by Wednesday. After that, all that wold be left is the relationship pages, which I was against from the start bc of this exact reason. They'd fall behind. So by Wednesday, the only out of dates pages will hopefully be the shipping pages.

      If they can stay consistent with last seasons ratings, and pull more awards, then I'm sure RD has nothing to worry about. If they don't cast Sabrina in time, I can imagine the last moments of the midseason finale consisting of us watching Sabrina from behind. She's wearing a black hooded robe with strands of her white hair flowing out. We won't see her face, but they'll make it obvious that its her. I'm hoping that S2 is as dark as they're hyping it up to be.

      Also, I think I'll be updating some of the policies on the RD wiki in prep for the new season, and with so little time, I just wanted to let you know, that I'm probably gonna take a lot of it from our policies here lol

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    • Can't happen accurately anyways, they can always recast or make up some bogo reason. Doubtful it would ever happen though, unless it's a minor role that nobody really remembers.

      I'm against it to an extent. Relevant ones sure, but every interaction, no. Something like OA's relationship merge or just a minor paragraph would suffice. I've notice you intend on merging/deleting some relationship pages on RD; I hope that goes well.

      How dark are they hyping it -- is S2 the major plot "darkness" pertaining to the "drugs" or whatever and finding Fred's shooter (potential murderer, if they go that route, never can tell). I can see that happening as well. I hope we get more than that though considering the rumors and disappointment(?) from S1 finale.

      Lol I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, most of the policies here, I've adapted from TVD with additions from various other Fandoms. The great majority of similar policies can be found across fandoms in greater or lesser detail.

      I.e. Personally, I think the image policy is probably one of the more important ones, as besides the information that's edited into articles, Images are second to that. I've recently added additional information to ours, expanding and referencing Delena from TVD as I rather like her system.

      I do have another reason for bringing that up though; With RD, I did notice a comment somewhere about organizing images, will you implement a numbering system like here/TVD so that they can quickly be organized? I can ask that over there if it's not already address, just let me know but I was curious as without watching the episode, it'd be rather difficult to prove they are in a particular order and vandals or simply just posting them out of order would be a pain to correct.

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    • Distance will do MTX well. Too many familiar actors will only make the situation worse, and add to the comparisons.

      When S1 was about to premiere, I was just a normal editor back then, my suggestion was to use tabbers on each character's page with a tab dedicated to their most relevant relationships (e.g Archie/Jughead, Archie/Betty, Archie/Fred, etc). Its easier to maintain and less time consuming, but I was out voted. As for the merge, that's a slow moving process at the moment.

      Now we know how dark they're taking it. Its hilarious that they killed Grundy. They made a lot of viewers happy with that. Correct. I believe the main plot is Fred's killer and the drugs. There will be secondary plots from what I heard. Josie, Cheryl, and Kevin all have stories coming up. Then there's Hiram. And can't forget about Jughead and the Serpents. I think they have enough to make this season full and entertain. Its up to execution now.

      I agree. Users seem to heavy rely on the images. I plan on checking into that additional information soon.

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    • I agree!

      Will you be going through with the tabber's thing then since now you've adopted the wiki or have the major relationships separate pages, with relevant minor ones as simplified paragraphs on the character pages?

      It was kinda random that they killed her though. I didn't expect to see her and I could have swore, that I saw her yellow punch bug at the end of last season, but from the comments, I see a lot of users hated her because she and Archie were a thing. Jury's out for me, but I don't think she deserved to die.

      Josie, Cheryl, and Kevin - Cheryl I've set up her storyline with the premiere and whatever she's blackmailing her mother with. Not sure how relevant Josie and Kevin's will be though they are starring. Seems like a large cast, but I guess with the extended season, they can afford it. I think Hiram's will be one of the best and he can easily be involved or take over Lodge's drug business lol.

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    • The major relationships will stay (e.g Jarchie, Bughead and Varchie). However, some of the less relevant ones, like Betty and Trev will just go in the relationship section of each characters' page. Not sure how the format will be. I have time to decided whether we'll use tabbers or just continue with what we already started, Its a process we started some time back, but with the season airing, it'll probably have to wait.

      I don't think it was random. First Fred, then Grundy. This clearly involves Archie somehow. Prison would've been a more fitting punishment, but I ain't losing any sleep over Grundy's death. I didn't like her or hate her.

      A huge main cast, but with 22 episodes, I guess it makes sense. Like you, I have no idea what they have planned for Josie and Kevin, but they got plenty of time to make it happen. That one scene with Hiram has me interested in whatever he has planned. I'm definitely looking forward to see what he has planned next

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    • Yeah I understand that. Relationship pages are a pain. Everyone wants a page about every little thing, but then no one wants to update them. Major ones are fine and are usually the high traffic ones anyways.

      I hate it when they bring characters back for the sake of killing them though. I get the connection but idk. Bringing her back, imo, is random. What kinda connection though does Moose and Midge hold with Archie though. I neither liked, nor hated her. I don't like seeing characters killed without a purpose, that which hasn't been revealed though, so maybe I'll agree with it more once it's known.

      As long as they give their cast appropriate screen times and good plots, I'm good with it. Sometimes with larges casts, some fall short. I'm more interested in Hiram's plot. I wonder why he and Veronica are buying up all of Riverdale, as it would seem. I don't yet see the purpose behind it.

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    • Exactly. Most wikis don't have the community to support that kind effort and work it would take to maintain all those pages. It just doesn't make sense to me to add more work to what you already have.

      So, now that Black Hood has attacked Moose and Midge, its clear that Archie isn't his target. Right now, it does seem random. But with him finally coming forward to them with a note, I hope this'll be cleared up. I highly doubt he went all the way over to Greendale just to kill a teacher randomly.

      Out of the storylines they've revealed so far, I'm most interested in Jughead's serpent storyline and Reggie's jingle-jangle storyline. He was one of my favorites last season, but as you know, I felt like they didn't do enough with him. Hiram places third for me. Unless of course they introduce Sabrina, then everyone gets knocked down the ranking xD

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    • Exactly. Seems like some people just make pages to be making pages without thought into it, relationship or other. It still irks my nerves that there was a thing with TVD and they put up such an argument to keep a page... yet the whole season went by and no additional information was added to it, smh. If you let me know how you want it structured, I can work on them in my spare time. I can summarize the candidates into small paragraphs or something on their individual pages, or have a separate page, to list out all minors one and then just link to the desired section or something. Either way, let me know what you're thinking.

      When you put it that way, no, not random. There's a purpose of sorts. The note will, I'm sure, give some sort of motive. That will be interesting. Seems like IG though is pointing fingers at Tall Boy. I've seems some pretty good theories, though I don't like to speculate on myself -more of a hard facts, kinda guy. Some seem a little more... wild/out there. One related the jacket he wore (while meeting Jughead about Penny) as being the same. XD Stretching, maybe...

      "Jingle-Jangle" just sounds silly imo. Like who came up with that. Did they explain what it does, other then Reggie telling Archie it'd keep him awake or whatever? Sabrina, definitely first for me, regardless. But Hiram and Hermione... they've intrigued my interest. Jughead's is probably third for me, but we get to see more of that in ep 3, I think, so it will be interesting. I do want to see more of FP though. He's just kinda off in a corner with the whole jail-time stuff, so may not get a lot of screentime, for a while, at least until he gets out.

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    • TVD wiki has too many relationship pages. Far too many to keep up to date. That doesn't surprise me at all. People either always complain about there not being a page, or when there is a page, they complain that its missing info. Hardly anyone wants to put in the work for it. Since we already started on it way back when, I guess FP's relationship section on his page would be a good example of how it should look.

      As suspected, we now have the motive behind the shootings. He's taking out sinners. I've seen the side by side comparison post of tall boy and the Black Hood running out the shoppe. They stretch any harder with that theory, and they just might pull something. I have no suspects. Its too early, and I'm certainly not paying attention to that bs description Archie gave. He was clearly traumatized. That could effect his memory of the incident.

      It seems the name of the drug was the show paying respect to the comics again. So, I can't get mad at them for that. But I do agree that its a silly name. Thanks to Toni, we now know its a highly addictive gutter drug, but that's it. That's one thing I'm not liking. 3 eps in yet FP's only made one appearance. I guess there's only so much they can do with him from jail. So, hopefully, he's out soon.

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    • Yup. It's going to be a slow going process to get them all merged which seems like it's been around for like 1-2 years now. RD already has so many and it's only just started S2, best to nip it in the bud now. XD The constant... who's going to update whatever article. Like if you want it updated sooo bad, create an account and update it yourself. I mean it's not that hard and the complaining gets old. I'll take a look and see what I can do with the minor ones. Right now, I just mostly revise grammar/spell and expand information; I just don't have larges amounts of time to spend on larger updates atm.

      That's still kinda random, imo. When/who did Fred commit adultery with? I know he and Mary were getting a divorce, but I don't recall that being the reason behind it, right? That would suggest that it's personal, maybe. Now he's also targeting Betty... seems like "sinners" makes anyone a target. Mayor McCoy seems to want to push it under the rug though. That makes me think maybe she's a corrupted gov. official or something. It's way too early and if it's that easy, then props department crapped out on that. The serpents also have no reason for attacking Ms. Grundy nor Midge and Moose, unless someone else is pulling the strings, which wouldn't surprise me either. Irl, there's been plenty of studies done that victims memories after a traumatic incident aren't as often correct as they believe. The viewer's could very well have been shown Archie's interpretation of the events and not what actually happened. I mean Pop didn't even remember calling the police.

      Jingle Jangle and now the Sugerman. I guess it's good to pay respect to source material. Still a bit funny regardless. Yeah I rewatched the episode with it's part, and assisted with the page. I'd like to see more of FP, but I assume with Cheryl's testimony, they will eventually have him released or something. Not much of a character if all his screen time is in jail or in court.

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    • As you know, not my call. I was out voted. But I accepted it, and now its time to clean up the mess I wanted to avoid. I never understood why there were so many anons, especially anons that visit regularly. Its extremely simple to create an account. I've deleted a handful of unnecessary ships pages, like Cheryl and Jughead, but plenty still remain. Things have actually slowed down for me a bit, so I've had a little more time recently.

      I think you're forgetting about the affair with Hermione. Both he and Hermione were still married. In 1x04, Alice came to the drive-in to get Fred. When she knocked on the car window, she even said something like 'sorry to interrupt your adultery'. I wonder what makes Betty a sinner. I commented something like that the other day. She's the sweep it under the rug and avoid it type of person. Poor quality to have as a mayor. She did the same thing with Clifford Blossom and the Jubilee. I agree. The serpents aren't killing a random teacher or a couple students in the woods. I'm officially going with Archie's recollection of the shooting being incorrect due to the traumatic nature of it.

      I wanna see how FP responds to Jughead being a Serpent. He always knew Jughead could do more, so its going to be interesting see how he reacts to Jug choosing a lesser path. I'm positive he'll be released. FP wasn't promoted as main just to rot in prison.

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    • It's a bit ridiculous imo, make such a fuss over having a relationship article then don't even maintain it once it's created. I don't get why users can't just start something as a paragraph or something on the parent page, should enough information persist, then it could be moved to a page of it's own. I think it's simpler that way. Idk I don't get anons. I was once an anon once upon a time ago. And, surprise, I created an account lol. Like you said, it's not a hard process.

      Eh. Yeah maybe. Idk. I guess I took "separation" or whatever as they were on their way to divorce. They were practically already there, just haven't signed the paper work, so while technically it can be called adultery, I guess I just didn't see it that way. Semantics I guess. XD Betty is a snowflake, like 98% of the time. The only thing I can think of would be her BDSM fantasies like Kevin pointed out, unless it's strictly personal against Archie or something. McCoy is a bit shady. I can't really figure out her angle.

      That's goinng to be an interesting dynamic! I can see FP being more the father type and "do as I say, not as I do" kinda thing. Like he'll still be a serpent but doesn't want Jughead being one (it will be some pretty good character development imo). It will really be interesting if Jughead's attitude towards the gang changes to a positive outlook about being with them. I can see that happening the more he's at southside, interacting with them, whether it's out of reluctance or something more. I hope he's released soon though.

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    • I just don't get the fascination with ships pages, but I guess that's bc I don't get the ships either. If they pages were up to date, then all of this wouldn't be as concerning. However, few people actually want to put in the work. Its almost like they expect the pages to update themselves. I have no issues with the occasional relationship pages if its significant and people plan to maintain it

      Technically, Hiram and Hermione weren't separated. I feel like Fred was clear to do whatever he wanted. Mary even said it. Hermione on the other hand wasn't separated from Hiram. He was just locked up. But he expected her to remain faithful. I'm surprised she wasn't gunned down. If Fred can get shot for screwing his married ex, then I suppose Betty can be on the list for tying someone up and holding their head under the water. I don't trust Mayor McCoy. She puts on a nice smile but she isn't as she seems

      FP told Archie to watch over Jughead bc he had a dark side. I'm pretty certain we'll see it soon enough. Judging from all the promo pics, it seems like Jug is getting pretty comfortable with the Serpents. It even looks like he's hangin' at the Whyte Wyrm.

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    • I'm in the same boat I guess. I don't really care for ships and if I did I'd sure care about updating the content. Lol out of the what... 100s on TVD, I pull for maybe two... 3 if I'm being generous. XD

      Yeah that makes sense to me and would have made more sense if it would have been Hermione as the one gunned down. But I guess, the fault lies with the man? Idk. I won't put muvh thought into it because we're bound to get more info as to whom is controlling his target's and why. Politicians are typically construed as corrupt so, ideally Mayor McCoy, seemingly should be a target too.

      I can't wait to find out more about the dark side he has or going to develop. The potential character deleopment between Jughead and FP should be interesting.

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    • LOL, I don't even want to think about TVD and their countless shitty ships. Depending on how much time I got, I might be able to keep the Jughead and Toni page updated. I don't ship them though. I just really like both characters and the serpents.

      For storytelling purposes, I get why they chose Fred. I built up the suspense of Hiram Lodge as so many suspected him (or Hermione) to be some way responsible for the shooting. Who shot Fred Andrews definitely turned into a big thing.

      Agreed. I'd be disappointed if they didn't capitalize on this opportunity to really develop this relationship between father and son.

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    • Lol I rather like them together but not as a couple. As friends. I think Jughead will be good for Toni but I don't think I want to see her like flipping side or whatever. She's a serpent and so far the only other female serpent apart from Penny.

      Yeah he make more sense in that context, especially if Hiram is the root of all the troubles. He may have threatened Hermione but I don't think he'd physically harm her, well... shoot to kill anyways. He values Veronica too much and if that would get out to her, then he'd be screwed.

      Agreed, I hope they start to focus on it soon. This waiting for FP to get out of jail is boring.

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    • I think they make for a fun partnership. Unfortunately, we always knew it would potentially end up being. I hope they plan on doing more with Toni other than making her a obstacle

      Now that the season has progress, I don't think Hiram had anything to do with the shooting or any of the attacks. But he's definitely going to capitalize off them.

      We're only 5 eps in, so I'm willing to wait a little longer to see what they do with this.

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    • I guess I like the way they incorporated her into Jughead's story. I mean she's a serpent (and has a little more heart than the rest of her gang friends), showed him around school, she's also a photographer, so that leads into the Red and Black. Seems like it's fitting together well. I guess, since she was described as opening bisexual, I was thinking they would have lead with that, but now I'm under the assumption they will move into that after Jughead. Then again, none of the main cast are lesbian and they seem like the only ones to interact with Toni, apart from Jughead.

      Eh. I still wouldn't put it past him to be involved somehow. Even as "corrupt" as Sierra is (what I think the worse is she took a bribe?) I don't think she'd hired someone.

      Seems like e6 they will focus on FP again, so that's good. We need to see a bit more of him and I'm interested in seeing how he reacts to Jughead's initiation. He's bound to already know.

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    • I like that they're not leading her in with her bisexuality, as if its her most important quality, like the "bisexual werewolf". Toni unquestionably has potential, and they're off to a good start with her. I just look forward to seeing what follows. Toni and Jughead as a couple wont stick. So I want to see her interact with other characters, who she is without Jughead.

      Hiram's definitely scheming. I just don't suspect the attacks to be of his in influence or doing. Same goes for McCoy. I don't see her being involved. She's shady, but doesn't come across as the type to have people killed.

      Assuming he's heard of Jughead's initiaion, I wonder if he'll say anything to the Serpents that allowed him to do it. They had to have know this isn't what FP wanted. I see him being angry at everyone involved.

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    • I was under the assumption it would have been front and center, like when they promote other characters that way. So far, I'm glad I was wrong. I like Toni's development so far and she's one of my current favorites. XD Right now, Jughead is her only link beyond the Serpents and even to the Northsiders. It will be interest how they will continue to incorporate her.

      Out of the two, I wouldn't put it past Hiram. Sierra is to benign for something like that unless they want to completely shock us. lol. I'm at least inclined to think that we already been introduced to the man under the hood. Cliff Blossom was a shocker, for me, in regards to Jason, so someone like Hiram, I think, or the Serpents, would just be kinda expected. I've see more user speculate that it could be Sheriff Keller, but given his and Kevin's scene, to the viewers, that doesn't seem likely.

      That will be an interesting reaction. I'd assume that he'd reprimand whoever was in charge lol, Tall Boy, Sweat Pea? Idk seems like there are two sects of Serpents the high schoolers and those that hang out at the bar. XD

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    • Forgot all about this XD My bad. RD has introduced quite a few interesting Serpents, and I'm all for it. I like Toni, but she's not necessarily a favorite. Sweet Pea's more entertaining imo

      As long as the Black Hood doesn't end up being Chic, Hal, or Tall Boy, I think I'll be fine. Those 3 are at the center of the most predictable theories. Clifford wasn't a huge shocker for me, but it wasn't super predictable either. With us having so little info on the killer, I'm not even sure if we've met him yet. I highly doubt its Keller.

      Sweet Pea isn't running anything. The Serpents don't have an actual leader, so like Toni said, idiots like Sweet Pea and Fogarty are pleased to do as they wish. But they aren't leading anything. We now know, Tall Boy is the de facto leader but he wants to merge with the Ghoulies. Can't wait to see him and FP face off.

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    • Toni is benign compared to Sweet Pea. But yeah, I want to see how Tall Boy reacts to FP's release, whether he'll challenge his leadership or step back down.

      They seem to be throwing out the possibility that it's Keller, at least with the next trailer. I'm not leaning towards Chic or Hal. They already did it with Cliff and that'd just be a rehash and I'd hope they wouldn't do that so early on.

      Tall Boy wanting to merge with the Ghoulies seems a bit odd to me.

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    • Being compared to Sweet Pea how? From what I've seen, people are taking a liking to Sweet Pea, far more than Toni. Tall Boy seems rather persistent. I don't see him back down. But I sure as hell don't see FP backing down either.

      Keller seems too obvious. As does the janitor, Hal, and Chic. I hope its not any of them.

      Odd how? We don't really know much about him. Would've been more odd to me if it was someone like FP that wanted to merge. He clearly sees the Serpents as family.

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    • I really let this lapse. XD my bad.

      I think I was just thinking that Toni doesn't really seem like a gang member. She's not "violent" or have the same outlook like Sweet Pea. I mean she was even helping with a toy drive. (I've not seen the full episode, just bits but I plan to catch up, soon - so maybe I missed something). I still like Toni. I'm neither here or there with my opinion on Sweet Pea. He's not done really anything to make me dislike him, but I don't really care to see him either... lol more appearances will sway me one or another way.

      So... I've seen comments that Janitor Joe was anticlimactic. Seems like it was him, but probably wasn't. Idk. Hart's been more active on IG, so it seems like they are shifting to his story line in the second half of the season, so they may have laid the Black Hood to rest already.

      They're rival gangs. It just seems to me that they have to different perspectives and it just wouldn't work out. Honestly I don't think the Ghoulies will come up again much since in the midseason premiere it showed the Southside coming to Riverdale High. They already have the Serpents and Bulldogs beef, I doubt they'd throw the Ghoulies into that mix.

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    • And of course, now I've stopped receiving notifications for this thread as well.

      I agree with you that Toni's actions don't really follow with those of a typical gang member. But my take on that has been that she doesn't act like a gang member bc she doesn't see herself as one. Toni has made it perfectly clear that she views the Serpents as family, not just a group of people she affiliates herself with.

      RAS confirmed that the Black Hood was Joe. But I'm sure there's still more to it. I'm convinced that he was merely a puppet. They can still save this story line from that weak ass reveal if they play their cards right.

      It does seem odd now, especially since he's back on team Serpent. It's like his attempted merge with the Ghoulies was never a thing. I could still see the Ghoulies being a factor since we know that they have teen members, just like the Serpents.

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    • Lol it's okay. I can move over that that general thread on RD, if that would be better.

      Idk. I don't think it's that simple. Maybe with the younger serpents, sure, but the personalities of others like Sweet Pea and Fangs are almost radically different in other areas. I like the contrast, but outside looking in Toni almost seems like she just doesn't fit. She's like the prop girl who, so far, hasn't really got her hands dirty --that could just be an age thing though.

      That's good. At least there's some confirmation with that. It's usually never that cut and dry, but usually there's more at play than a simple killer. They have the drugs and the mafia lady that we've yet to see again. I'm sure her and Penny will make another appearance though.

      Eh. I can see an enemy of my enemy is my friend. Maybe they will have the Serpents and Bulldogs coming together to deal with the Ghoulies. Otherwise, they have a ton of stories going on. I hope it all makes sense, especially since they are introducing the wrestler aspect with Archie just to string along Hiram's story too.

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    • Whatever works best for you now. A couple days ago I got on to a bunch of notifications from old messages, including this one and some dead ones from Tommy over on TVD wiki. Not sure what caused it, but I'm all good on this end.

      Well we now know that Toni doesn't just view the Serpents as her family, some of them are her actual family. Which could explain why she's different from the rest. She doesn't have the gang mentality bc its a family thing to her. We saw how protective she was of Thomas. She was pissed at Jughead over that article.

      Now that Betty and Archie have both said that they feel like the Black Hood saga isn't over, there's definitely something still in play. Not sure about the old lady, but I never doubted Penny was returning. I'm hype for that.

      Considering that they haven't even mentioned the Ghoulies, I would say it's a safe bet that they've dropped it.

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    • Alright, then I guess I will keep it here for now, unless notifications become an issue again, which knowing FANDOM, it will XD

      That does shed a lot of light on her perspective. Though what it was created for then and what it is today, is different given just two generations i.e. Thomas and Toni. I think they could have done a bit better with wording their history. Maybe I'm over thinking it but it just seems fishy to me. Thomas is one of the founding members, and it was only founded when his grandfather died, yet "all" the Uktena were slaughtered when Thomas' grandfather was a baby. Obviously not, since children survived... lol idk. Oral traditional and such and while it's still a "family" it's a loosely used term, imo. Makes me wonder why Thomas is no longer present with the Serpent and why FP is in charge. I also want to know their dynamic between one another -FP and Thomas that is. I doubt this will ever be explored though. Thomas felt like a character only to show up to explain history and we'll never hear from him again.

      I didn't doubt Penny's return either. That much to me, was obvious. Seems like though the old lady is at least revolving around the drug plot, so we may see her again. Idk, I'd assume it would depend on if Penny's plot is now solely revenge, which I'd gather it is. The black hood plot is starting to annoy me. It just seem highly unnecessary to bring him back into the picture because you know someone else would have to be pulling the stings. Unless this whole Northside v. Southside, BH, drugs/Penny/Serpents, etc. are all tied together somehow plus connecting to the Lodges work with the Mayor. If you ask me that's just too many plots and hopefully it will all make sense soon and not feel like a bunch of random plots thrown together.

      I had assumed it would be dropped. It served it's purpose to get Jughead to sit with and eventually join the serpents, but they could have easily had a masked serpent to do the same. I know it's homage to the comics (right?), but it seemed unnecessary to me.

      Is it just me or does it seem like they have way too many main/guest characters and they are flipping around different plots, more-so than usual?

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    • Well, that applies to gangs in today's society. Some of them started out as like protectors of the community until corruption took place, among other things. That seems to be the case with the Serpents as well. I think that was just a poor choice in wording. Seems more like most of them were slaughtered. That was a question of mine as well. Why isn't a founding member leading the Serpents. Though I agree with on the fact that we'll probably never see Thomas again

      I'm disappointed with how little Penny appeared. Better than nothing. But I was definitely hoping for more than one scene. I'm hoping she'll return since there's no way that she's over getting back at Jughead and into the Serpents. Not sure how BH would fall into it all, but that storyline is finished. He's not coming back, but there's still more to come. I can see a scenario where all the other storylines tie in. Northside vs Southside, SoDale, Serpents, etc They're all smaller parts of a bigger story involving the Lodges and whatever Hiram has planned.

      I always had this sneaky suspicion that it was a Serpent (Sweet Pea?) that attacked Jughead. But I guess that wasn't the case since they never addressed it. As for homage to the comics, I know the Ghoulies appeared in Sabrina's animated series. But I dont know much more about them beyond that

      I said they should chill back when they were promoting characters like Kevin and FP. While I don't necessarily think they have too many main/guest characters, I do think that they shouldnt be promoting characters when they spend too much time on the main four. They should have more episode like 2x07, where Josie and Cheryl appeared a lot. It was even distrusted three ways; Archie and Jughead / Josie and Cheryl / Betty and Veronica. They need more of that.

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    • But that's what I'm saying, there's only a two generation gap. That's some drastic change imo from being a family and protecting their traditions to going to crime/petty theft, etc. They still have that "family" part but to some, i.e. Tall Boy, it doesn't mean anything. I mean I guess you can't say every member would be related to the originals, that anyone can join, so I guess that can be said is what influenced a change. Thomas did say that "we" founded the serpents... whatcha wanna bet, that *eventually* it will come back around that the Jones were apart of that "we". I mean as it stands now, Toni is more "royalty" that Jughead is considering her grandfather founded the gang. Then again, Jughead is main and Toni is not, so if anything, they would push this on him rather than her.

      Better than nothing, I'd agree with, but nothing really came from it. Jughead is on "probation", which in the long run is a joke. They aren't doing anything to him. The Serpents is his whole story line this season. I would assume she'd have to come back, probably with Tall Boy, but the immediate few episodes do not suggest this. They keep teasing the BH coming back, it rather annoys me though. They need to start connecting the dots. All these different stories and now a new mayor race with supposedly Fred and Josie outing Kevin's dad to Kevin is just more unnecessary drama, imo.

      I could have seen Sweet Pea doing it. I would have figured it would have been a Serpent just to send a message, but like you said, it was never addressed and eluded to that the Ghoulies did it. I get homage and all that, but introducing them solely for that is pointless imo, but it's what launched Jughead into the serpents, so they've served their purpose. So much for "rival gangs" and what not.

      Sure they know this show doesn't solely revolve around just four characters. I had hoped they wouldn't shove other characters aside and we could have gotten more screen time and development with them, but apparently that's not the case. I agree, I liked 2x07 and I liked it from the different perspectives. We do need more episodes like that, because it worked and I gave more depth and insight into those moments, especially with Jose and Cheryl.

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    • I agree that the change is drastic but not impossible when anyone from the Southside is pretty much allowed to join. Thomas spoke of the Uketena tribe when referring to "we". The Jones aren't Native American so I doubt that they are a part of its founding. I think FP just rose in ranking which is why he's the King. But logically speaking, Toni should be considered as serpent royalty, more so than Jughead. But of course FP being King was planned out in S1, way before they had any plans of introducing Toni or her grandfather.

      Yeah, I don't see anything coming of this probation. He violated, and usually there's a punishment for that, but I don't see anything actually happening to him. They're clearly hinting at the black hood but I too get annoyed when shows drag it out too long. Mayor McCoy and Sheriff Keller hooking up is only unnecessary drama if nothing comes of it. Because of this, they're sinners. So if the black hood is really still around, they should be targets.

      I gave them a pass during S1 because they only had 13 episodes and I get establishing the main four was important along with moving along the story in such a short amount of time. But we're in season 2 now, and they have almost twice as many episodes. There's no excuse.

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    • I think they could have handled that better. I mean their back story is nothing how they were portrayed from the start. It's like they are attempting to re-write them to make them look not so bad. Toni should be which, her and the other younger serpents, idk why they'd even say that about Jughead... or Tall Boy for that matter, since he hated him. Seems like they'd just go to Thomas since FP was incarcerated. They opened this whole can of worms with that and didn't really bother to explain much, expect to make it out that the serpents "aren't bad" even though they are a 'gang' doing bad things.

      Oh I don't either. They've ignored the "serpents" since that ruling and now Jughead is all about taking down Hiram now. So not a surprise there. Jughead flips around different plots just as much as Archie does. I wouldn't see the point in bring the BH back. I assumed that it was probably him from the cabin scene in the last episode. And I agree, Keller and McCoy, that's just unnecessary drama imo, just to give Josie and Kevin a minor plot point. The main story is really affected by that, not really, though Hermione running for Mayor only makes it better for Hiram to make his prison thing come to fruition.

      No I agree. That's why I don't understand why they'd promote characters to main, yet not do anything with them. I mean they are only using Kevin now to troll Chic and Josie, idk what they are even doing with her and her mother now. At least Cheryl has more Blossom drama now, which isn't really a surprise.

      So, in case you haven't noticed. I've been attempting to tweak the infoboxes here. I've created Themes.css, but nothing seems to be changing... After some tinkering, I disable the Europa theme and have tested the css on another wiki (where it works) but still no change here on MTX [...] but I've still not figured it out. Also, it's been overdue, but I've updated the main page considering we've gotten a S2. Is there anything else you want to update to refresh the wiki with season two coming, like theme/link colors or bkg image? I'm just curious if you have any thoughts or comments.

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